Why do you love Magnum, P.I.? What drew you to it?

[BWheelz54]

I love what MHTR points out about Magnum looking back so often to an earlier time. I often think while watching Magnum that the show, though set in 1980s Hawaii, feels more like Indiana Jones than any other television show, or even movie. I often wonder why I have that sentiment. It's something more than plots about chasing down relics and idols. Something even more than wardrobe. There's just this feeling like adventure is just beyond the front door, and that the adventure might not necessarily be deadly to make you wealthy in some way. Gee, I don't know if that makes any sense. Higgins, to me, is the symbol of that glorious age of adventure, with his stories (so often comments about the very nature of story-telling) and his model kits. The show just turns so clever once you're into it. I agree with a lot of people who say we're currently in the "golden age" of television with shows like Mad Men and Breaking Bad. I'm not going to argue with that, because those shows really are incredible. But I will say that Magnum could fit in with those shows. Magnum is really so smart. But that "smart" is so subtle. I've often thought that Magnum is like one big, Saturday adventure movie.

[Pahonu]

Pahonu wrote:
Younger Reagan actually began as a classic Hollywood Democrat . . .

Yes I know. When I wrote Magnum was like a younger Reagan, the word "younger" was referencing Magnum's age relative to Reagan's age, and NOT to what Reagan was like when he was younger. And Reagan really didn't change that much, it was his former political party that changed.

Sorry, that wasn't clear in the original statement's wording. I have to disagree with your final statement though. Reagan liked to use the line, "I didn't leave the party, the party left me", but that was more for expedience than accuracy. It's really much more complex, and interesting. The book I mentioned offers good insight into his shifting ideas. You should check it out if you're interested in Reagan's life as a whole, not just his presidency. It was written just about ten years ago. Vastly summarized: By his own admission, his ideas began changing dramatically in the postwar era as the rising communist threat appeared to him as America's number one priority above all else.

[Pahonu]

I have to agree about the disco vibe. I'm a retired Army Officer and a lot of the the smaller details drove me nuts, even in the evolved version. Every time I see Magnum ask Higgins how to tie a Windsor knot I have a mini meltdown. If you went to a service academy you know how to tie a Windsor. Military Officers are socialized to be "proper" individuals. They don't play fast and loose with personal conduct. Every now and then you would hear a juicy bit of gossip about someone and you would be shocked. The job makes you a serious person. After 25 years in the cocoon it was really eye opening for me to realize most of society plays fast and loose. It would have been be hard for me suspend my belief that the "disco" Magnum, with 4 years of Annapolis and 10 years of active duty, would be that comfortable moving in Honolulu's seedy underbelly just a few years removed from service. The Magnum the show evolved into has all the character traits I loved about the Army: duty, loyalty, honor, comradeship, selflessness. He lives by a code of values, not by what feels good or the easiest option. All the main characters share these values. That's what makes the show great. I give allowances for Hollywood exaggeration or plot devices, but they never stray from the values of the show. Don't get too hung up on the politics. The Balkanized politics of today don't really apply. Even liberal military officers are pretty conservative guys in their own behavior. Think John Allen or Wesley Clark. Clark was my Brigade Commander when I was a Company Commander. I had no idea he was a Democrat, but politics are kind of a taboo subject in that culture.

Interesting observations, particularly about Honolulu's underworld. Thanks!

[MagnumsLeftShoulder]

I have to agree about the disco vibe. I'm a retired Army Officer and a lot of the the smaller details drove me nuts, even in the evolved version. Every time I see Magnum ask Higgins how to tie a Windsor knot I have a mini meltdown. If you went to a service academy you know how to tie a Windsor. Military Officers are socialized to be "proper" individuals. They don't play fast and loose with personal conduct. Every now and then you would hear a juicy bit of gossip about someone and you would be shocked. The job makes you a serious person. After 25 years in the cocoon it was really eye opening for me to realize most of society plays fast and loose. It would have been be hard for me suspend my belief that the "disco" Magnum, with 4 years of Annapolis and 10 years of active duty, would be that comfortable moving in Honolulu's seedy underbelly just a few years removed from service. The Magnum the show evolved into has all the character traits I loved about the Army: duty, loyalty, honor, comradeship, selflessness. He lives by a code of values, not by what feels good or the easiest option. All the main characters share these values. That's what makes the show great. I give allowances for Hollywood exaggeration or plot devices, but they never stray from the values of the show. Don't get too hung up on the politics. The Balkanized politics of today don't really apply. Even liberal military officers are pretty conservative guys in their own behavior. Think John Allen or Wesley Clark. Clark was my Brigade Commander when I was a Company Commander. I had no idea he was a Democrat, but politics are kind of a taboo subject in that culture.

I agree that Magnum was sometimes a little too "beach bum" at times to be an ex-Navy officer, but that was kind of the point of the show. He was trying to leave that rigid military stuff in the past and move on from the scars of war. Yes, I know he returned to the Navy in the end, but I never thought was realistic especially not with a daughter to raise alone.

Paddy, were you a fan of JAG? I sometimes think Bellasario created it just so he could correct the military mistakes they made in Magnum. JAG wasn't totally realistic either, but I thought they tried pretty hard to get the little details right and the lead character was totally believable as a Navy officer especially in the early seasons.

[MagnumFan]

I have to agree about the disco vibe. I'm a retired Army Officer and a lot of the the smaller details drove me nuts, even in the evolved version. Every time I see Magnum ask Higgins how to tie a Windsor knot I have a mini meltdown. If you went to a service academy you know how to tie a Windsor. Military Officers are socialized to be "proper" individuals. They don't play fast and loose with personal conduct. Every now and then you would hear a juicy bit of gossip about someone and you would be shocked. The job makes you a serious person. After 25 years in the cocoon it was really eye opening for me to realize most of society plays fast and loose. It would have been be hard for me suspend my belief that the "disco" Magnum, with 4 years of Annapolis and 10 years of active duty, would be that comfortable moving in Honolulu's seedy underbelly just a few years removed from service. The Magnum the show evolved into has all the character traits I loved about the Army: duty, loyalty, honor, comradeship, selflessness. He lives by a code of values, not by what feels good or the easiest option. All the main characters share these values. That's what makes the show great. I give allowances for Hollywood exaggeration or plot devices, but they never stray from the values of the show. Don't get too hung up on the politics. The Balkanized politics of today don't really apply. Even liberal military officers are pretty conservative guys in their own behavior. Think John Allen or Wesley Clark. Clark was my Brigade Commander when I was a Company Commander. I had no idea he was a Democrat, but politics are kind of a taboo subject in that culture.

I unfortunately haven't served, but I will say that I have noticed with some men who have, old habits die hard. My grandfather fought in WWII. I never knew him, he died before my birth. He rose quickly in the military, becoming a Staff Sgt. in under 3 years during peacetime. He worked first in Coast Anti-Artillary (Panama Canal Zone)) before the War, then in the Quartermaster Service in San Francisco from 1942-1944, and in 1944 was sent overseas as part of the Northern France Campaign. He was shot in Luxembourg by a sniper two days before the Battle of the Bulge ended while his unit was attempting to capture a city. He kept the leg, though he spent a year in and out of the hospital in surgery. He was discharged honorably against his will disabled. From what I have been told, his ambition had been to stay in the Army as an instructor.

In the 40+ years after his death I came into possession of all his personal effects. He kept many things from during and after his Army years including his map of San Franscisco, his Presidio library card, a book called "Why America Fights" by Sherwood Eddy, written in 1942, which gave a moral explanation for our involvement in the war, and his Army driver license. He kept many things from after the war including many (photo) ID cards and membership cards long since expired. He was a member of both the American Legion and VFW as of 1958. He never discussed politics, at least not in front of my mother, although I do know he voted because I have his voter registration card from 1963 - though unfortunately it doesn't say what party he was affiliated with.

I noticed some reoccurring themes after his life in the Military. Almost every job he had after the War involved working with men, and being in a uniform of some kind. He was a Cab Driver in the early 1950s, and an armed chauffer. Back then, Cabbies wore a suit, tie and hat as part of the uniform. Afterwards, he worked as a Mail Carrier (again, uniformed). He worked on the side for the Pinkerton Detective Agency (again in Uniform). Afterwards, his final job was working as Sergeant/Supervisor with a private Security firm. That job too had him in a very military uniform. He kept his old Army clothes, too, even though he was long since trim enough to fit in them, although my grandmother in a fit of anger cut his shirt up the back and threw it away.

Even though in the early 1970s he began to incorporate aspects of the subculture into his life, he never went beyond what would've been acceptable military standards. He grew a mustache in the early 1970s for the first time in his life, but it was trimmed in such a manner as to be military standard. He grew his sideburns, but they never came lower than the military standard. Even after having a stroke and being forced to retire due to it, he always kept himself properly groomed with his trim, Higgins-esque mustache and military specification sideburns and short hair.

[Fr. Paddy McGuinness]

I agree that Magnum was sometimes a little too "beach bum" at times to be an ex-Navy officer, but that was kind of the point of the show. He was trying to leave that rigid military stuff in the past and move on from the scars of war. Yes, I know he returned to the Navy in the end, but I never thought was realistic especially not with a daughter to raise alone.

Paddy, were you a fan of JAG? I sometimes think Bellasario created it just so he could correct the military mistakes they made in Magnum. JAG wasn't totally realistic either, but I thought they tried pretty hard to get the little details right and the lead character was totally believable as a Navy officer especially in the early seasons.

I never watched JAG. I didn't know Bellasario was involved with it. I'll have to give it a look now. The beach bum thing was not a distraction to me. I, personally, don't put a lot of weight on the scars of war theory for Magnum. I prefer his explanation, "It wasn't anything earth shattering. I woke up one day, age 33, and realized I'd never been 23." That is a summary statement that encapsulates a lot of reflecting and dissatisfaction. He wants to be as far away from a life filled with responsibility and pressure as possible. The Magnum character has zero responsibilities that he doesn't take upon himself. It makes perfect sense to me.

[MagnumsLeftShoulder]

I, personally, don't put a lot of weight on the scars of war theory for Magnum. I prefer his explanation, "It wasn't anything earth shattering. I woke up one day, age 33, and realized I'd never been 23." That is a summary statement that encapsulates a lot of reflecting and dissatisfaction. He wants to be as far away from a life filled with responsibility and pressure as possible. The Magnum character has zero responsibilities that he doesn't take upon himself. It makes perfect sense to me.

Oh, I agree with you that he was tired of being Mr. Responsiblity. I guess I associate his war experiences with losing Michelle, but I know they didn't come up with that idea until the hiatus between seasons 1 & 2. Then in season 3 we find out he was a POW for a few months, but that's also something they came up with after the "never been 23" explanation. Like most fiction, it was "make it up as you go."

Give JAG a shot because military ethics, honor codes, and loyalty are on full display. And since you lived it, you'll probably get a kick out of critiquing parts of it. Be warned that it changes a lot after the first season. Season 1 was on NBC and it was more action/adventure oriented. When NBC cancelled it, CBS picked it up and it became more of a blend of drama, adventure, and some courtroom/legal/mystery stuff.

[MagnumFan]

My question is, why did Magnum stay in the military after Vietnam was over?
Michelle "died" in April 1975 to the best of his knowledge. Why did he bother staying with the Navy until '79? You'd think Michelle's death would've been the breaking point for him.

Also, am wondering how Magnum got stationed in Hawaii between 1975 and 1979 in the first place.

[Fr. Paddy McGuinness]

My question is, why did Magnum stay in the military after Vietnam was over?
Michelle "died" in April 1975 to the best of his knowledge. Why did he bother staying with the Navy until '79? You'd think Michelle's death would've been the breaking point for him.

Also, am wondering how Magnum got stationed in Hawaii between 1975 and 1979 in the first place.

Well he was a career officer who, based on "Missing in Action" (season 1), had been in Vietnam in 1967. During that conflict you were limited to 3 "in-country" deployments that were 13 months in duration with a one month mid-tour leave. So he probably would have done another deployment between that one and the one in 74/75 where he met Michelle. The Ivan incident at Doc Wei would fit in well to the second deployment. I know I'm mixing fact with fiction and the show timeline is a little skewed. Michelle thought her husband was killed during Tet a full 7 years before the fall of Saigon. If we're to believe all the things they attribute to Magnum's character (SEAL, Naval Intelligence, Joint Spec Ops teams), guys like that usually don't break. That's how got where they got. When things are bad they focus on a goal. The character was a pretty stable person. I thought his drinking bender after the Sharon Stone suicide was way out of character, but it introduced the Jim Bonnick character. If you look at the amount of loss in his life he had it all very well compartmentalized. As for being in Hawaii, that's pretty common for sailors. Besides Pearl Harbor, they must have other installations on Oahu. The Army had 6 installations on Oahu when I was stationed there.

[MagnumFan]

My question is, why did Magnum stay in the military after Vietnam was over?
Michelle "died" in April 1975 to the best of his knowledge. Why did he bother staying with the Navy until '79? You'd think Michelle's death would've been the breaking point for him.

Also, am wondering how Magnum got stationed in Hawaii between 1975 and 1979 in the first place.

Well he was a career officer who, based on "Missing in Action" (season 1), had been in Vietnam in 1967. During that conflict you were limited to 3 "in-country" deployments that were 13 months in duration with a one month mid-tour leave. So he probably would have done another deployment between that one and the one in 74/75 where he met Michelle. The Ivan incident at Doc Wei would fit in well to the second deployment. I know I'm mixing fact with fiction and the show timeline is a little skewed. Michelle thought her husband was killed during Tet a full 7 years before the fall of Saigon. If we're to believe all the things they attribute to Magnum's character (SEAL, Naval Intelligence, Joint Spec Ops teams), guys like that usually don't break. That's how got where they got. When things are bad they focus on a goal. The character was a pretty stable person. I thought his drinking bender after the Sharon Stone suicide was way out of character, but it introduced the Jim Bonnick character. If you look at the amount of loss in his life he had it all very well compartmentalized. As for being in Hawaii, that's pretty common for sailors. Besides Pearl Harbor, they must have other installations on Oahu. The Army had 6 installations on Oahu when I was stationed there.

I'd say that his time spent "bumming it" from '80-'88 was a form of break. Not a mental or psychological break in the usual sense, but you have a guy who goes from being a highly decorated, disciplined veteran to a borderline freeloader. Yes, he does work as a PI, and he's stable in a mental sense, but this is a guy who lives case to case and is almost perpetually broke. I'd say that the entirety of Magnum's career as a PI was out of character for the guy with the military background he has. You could say Magnum perhaps compartmentalized the entirety of his army self during this eight year period - tucked it away as someone he used to know. The repulsion he has toward the Navy during this time, and the carefree nature he has, suggests to me a man looking to escape from his own memories. Not a regression to adolescence but an escape from the horrors he'd seen.

[BWheelz54]

MagnumFan's comments hit on an aspect of the show I think about a good bit while I enjoy the episodes. The final episode still sits with me a little wrong even after I've watched it several times now. I can understand why Magnum would choose to return to the Navy. And I understand what kind of character and commitment Magnum must've displayed while he was in the service before the show. But I still think that last episode kinda undermines Magnum's time as a private investigator. His time on the estate is sure informal compared to his service background, but I watch the episodes and feel Magnum uses that same character and commitment to help so many others, including Higgins, Rick, TC and himself. Sometimes, I feel that last episode is kinda saying, "Well, Magnum had his adolescent break now, and so it's time for him to be an adult again." I don't agree with that notion, at all. I think he's been an adult all along, no matter how he sometimes tries to put on a gorilla mask and just shrug it all off like a kid - he can't. i just don't like this idea that Magnum is somehow being irresponsible during the timeline of the show. I argue the opposite.

[MagnumsLeftShoulder]

I just don't like this idea that Magnum is somehow being irresponsible during the timeline of the show.

I agree. Yes, he was living a beachy-laid back life; but so what? He had earned it! I don't buy that he was mooching off Robin Masters either. Nobody was forcing Robin to keep him employed.

I never liked the final episode either BWheelz. It wasn't the worse thing they could of written, but returning to the Navy did not seem like what TM would do at that stage of his life. For one thing, he was 9 years older so it's not like he could go back to the SEALs and he would have been miserable behind a desk. But most of all, continuing to live and work at the estate was the perfect set up for a single father! He had a great place to raise his daughter and he could take on PI work when he wanted. For all of their arguing, Higgins would have never complained if he had to look after Lily while Thomas was away on a case.

[Moxie]

For me it was the relationship between the characters that mattered They were all very different but they had an unbreakable bond between them. They were always there for one another It might be the military background they all shared taught them about always being there for one another. They were all clearly scarred by war. They all wanted a gentle,happy life which they could share. Only combat veterans who fought together could really relate to one another the way they did. Really,I think that most people want something like that. Instead a lot of us focus on "goals", or in a lot of cases just surviving. Life goes by before you realize how important your friends are and why they matter. Stopping to smell the roses also masters a lot in our lives. Magnum had that.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

Hi Guys,
I think we may have forgotten how Magnum's experiences as a child also formed his character/values.
He lost his Dad early, I seem to recall there was a shot of his father's much too big watch hanging from young Tommy's wrist(which episode anyone?), perhaps representing his childhood was over and he had to take on bigger tasks before his time.
Writers put such images in a script on purpose, it isn't happenstance.
His mother then marries a cold SOB, a step father who when he sees the face of Tommy has his own inadequacies reflected back to him in the knowledge here is living proof that his wife's first husband was much the better man. I think(maybe I'm wrong) we are also supposed to gleam from the subtext and Magnum's unforgiving stony facade/stance when around his step father that he beat young Magnum.
So Magnum didn't just lose his young adult years to wartime service but maybe his whole youth dating from when his Dad was killed in action (do we know how old Magnum was then?)
I can understand how he subsequently embraced a new lifestyle of carefree living, if only to be like everyone else who had gotten to enjoy a normal childhood and young adult years.
It might not be perfectly normal for a man in his 30's but neither is spending some of your time in your 20's being tortured in a communist POW camp.

[MHTR]

Luther's nephew Dobie wrote:
I seem to recall there was a shot of his father's much too big watch hanging from young Tommy's wrist(which episode anyone?)

Home from the Sea - http://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=154