The Dark Side of Thomas Magnum?

[Pahonu]

When I said in early treatments of the series, I was referring to the development of the show by Bellisario from Larson’s original screen treatment. It’s a term used in the industry to describe an idea for a series presented to the studio. They have quite a bit of detail about characters, background, settings, etc… but are not full scripts.

Perhaps the most important of these was a treatment by Bellisario called Cutter which he combined with Larson’s to get us very close to what we all know as Magnum p.i. In Cutter, the protagonist lived in the guest house of a Hollywood bigwig and operated his detective business. He had two war buddies, one managed a nightclub in Hollywood and the other flew helicopters out of San Pedro, servicing the oil platforms off the coast. The pilot was described as a white southerner nicknamed TC.

As far as initials being used frequently in the South, it is so well known here that it has become a trope, along with nicknames like Sonny and Bubba. It’s a pretty well known phenomenon in the US. In the film Forrest Gump, Bubba who is black makes a joke that he was given a cracker name, meaning a white southerner. Many shows use initials starting with J, like JB, JT, JR as in the hit series Dallas, for southern characters. Also, southerners love to put monograms on things as well, for some reason. Check it out and you’ll see.

I didn’t realize you haven’t seen the whole series. There’s lots more “evidence” with recurring characters addressing Magnum in future episodes to test your hypothesis.

[Mark de Croix]

Thank you for the edification about the "industry." However it doesn't matter whether characterization differed anywhere else but in the TV series known as MPI. Does anywhere in the TV show have a message like,

"Viewers please note: For characterizations consult related novelettes, newsletters, motion pictures or any other material about Thomas Magnum PI. Also note further, fair game would also include Auntie Em's love notes to her beau stored in your attic in which she anticipated such a show like MPI."

No such message appears. And besides you would need a dissertation and then some to try to show influence on the TC characterization in MPI. Hardly does magnum-mania.com have the space for it!

You appear to make a false claim about "cracker."
>>"a cracker name, meaning a white southerner."
Not at all, sir. "Cracker," is a putdown for any White person from or in any region in the U.S. As far as use of monograms, it is not limited to the South. It may be a stereotyped notion of yours about the South but by no means is it exclusively a Southern custom.

Anyway let's suppose that TC is written as having been raised in the South. Fine. Then please go through MPI dialogs as produced by Mosley, sift through them and cull out speech distinctions between standard, White Southern, Black Southern, and Ebonics (if possibly relevant). That is, if you want to persist in your claim that the originators of MPI cast TC as originally from the South.

[Pahonu]

Thank you for the edification about the "industry." However it doesn't matter whether characterization differed anywhere else but in the TV series known as MPI. Does anywhere in the TV show have a message like,

"Viewers please note: For characterizations consult related novelettes, newsletters, motion pictures or any other material about Thomas Magnum PI. Also note further, fair game would also include Auntie Em's love notes to her beau stored in your attic in which she anticipated such a show like MPI."

No such message appears. And besides you would need a dissertation and then some to try to show influence on the TC characterization in MPI. Hardly does magnum-mania.com have the space for it!

You appear to make a false claim about "cracker."
>>"a cracker name, meaning a white southerner."
Not at all, sir. "Cracker," is a putdown for any White person from or in any region in the U.S. As far as use of monograms, it is not limited to the South. It may be a stereotyped notion of yours about the South but by no means is it exclusively a Southern custom.

Anyway let's suppose that TC is written as having been raised in the South. Fine. Then please go through MPI dialogs as produced by Mosley, sift through them and cull out speech distinctions between standard, White Southern, Black Southern, and Ebonics (if possibly relevant). That is, if you want to persist in your claim that the originators of MPI cast TC as originally from the South.

Sorry you seem to be taking my comments personally. I was simply trying to provide some background to the origin of the series and the nature of regionalism in the US. I never said such things were limited to the south but simply more common. Also, the series was influenced by an unproduced script called HH Flynn as well, Rick’s Bogart impersonations in the pilot are from that, if I recall correctly. Bellisario also reused the name Cutter in Tales of the Gold Monkey. It’s just a bit more insight into what the creators had in mind as the show was developed. That’s all I was pointing out. There is information on this website about the development process. Ignore it if you wish, but let me know when you finish the series and your judgements of the show have more evidence. Maybe we can have a conversation then without the melodramatic made-up quotations including Auntie Em?!?!? At least you didn’t make up quotes by me this time. Enjoy your hypothesizing.

Maybe you’ll enjoy this:

http://scottsnowden.net/blog/2016/10/05 ... num-p-i/8/

[Mark de Croix]

Let me assure you that there is no need to take anything personally--at least so far --in our discussion. I'm solely interested in the facts. To that extent it is more productive to deal with the issue at hand. You have yet to provide an alternative to the fact--and a fact--that TM goes by two different names in the show. Is it possibly the case that after all these years of this website that I was the first to point this out?

As I have shown, the names as used in the show show a pattern found in actual life. It's so great that you are an avid fan of all sorts of TV including MPI. However knowledgable you might be in that regard, you sometimes make false assertions that muddle discussion. Thus it is necessary to point those out lest we get too far adrift.

You are very welcome to sift through MPI and chart out uses of TM's names--if you have not done it already--and report back. We will be waiting your input about it and in the meantime I will be enjoying the shows as well as magnum-mania.

[Pahonu]

Let me assure you that there is no need to take anything personally--at least so far --in our discussion. I'm solely interested in the facts. To that extent it is more productive to deal with the issue at hand. You have yet to provide an alternative to the fact--and a fact--that TM goes by two different names in the show. Is it possibly the case that after all these years of this website that I was the first to point this out?

As I have shown, the names as used in the show show a pattern found in actual life. It's so great that you are an avid fan of all sorts of TV including MPI. However knowledgable you might be in that regard, you sometimes make false assertions that muddle discussion. Thus it is necessary to point those out lest we get too far adrift.

You are very welcome to sift through MPI and chart out uses of TM's names--if you have not done it already--and report back. We will be waiting your input about it and in the meantime I will be enjoying the shows as well as magnum-mania.

Your claim that you may have discovered that the character goes by two different names is itself not accurate. He is referred to by various characters by more than just the two names you assert. He is called Magnum, Thomas, Tom, TM, and Mr. Magnum by various recurring characters. That doesn’t even count other characters referring to him as Mags, in Mr. White Death, and Tommy in Limited Engagement. I would also add that Magnum, Thomas, and TM are far more commonly used in the series than Tom, which you have described as the alternative to Thomas in other threads. Discussing various reasons for the usage of Thomas vs. Tom is fine, but Tom is rarely used in the eight years of the show compared to Magnum and also TM, as used by TC.

I enjoy your hypothesizing about the subject, and wanted to add some extra details I have learned in the last 40 years, but make no definitive claims on the topic. I do, however, feel the topic is more complex than just Thomas vs. Tom.

[☨magnum.t]

I would like to speculate that during the first season and maybe the second the actors were adjusting to stage names vs real names. It happens all the time, actors mix up each others names and even their own. Tom Selleck goes by Tom and I'm sure on set it was a hard habit to break. I'm sure there are lost blooper reels somewhere with evidence of this in nearly every show created. Aside from the name thing Magnum does use TC and Rick but they are willing participants and even tell TM no on occasion. Magnum also has instances of repaying them like in Episode 15 "Don't say goodbye" when he gives TC all the money he was paid from his client. Blood brothers is a great description but even deeper than that the guys are trauma victims all healing in their own way and they all know that. At the volleyball game when TM asks TC if he ever has flashbacks and he says no, they both know he meant yes and there was a mutual understanding in each others faces.

[Mark de Croix]

I would like to speculate that during the first season and maybe the second the actors were adjusting to stage names vs real names. It happens all the time, actors mix up each others names and even their own. Tom Selleck goes by Tom and I'm sure on set it was a hard habit to break. I'm sure there are lost blooper reels somewhere with evidence of this in nearly every show created. Aside from the name thing Magnum does use TC and Rick but they are willing participants and even tell TM no on occasion. Magnum also has instances of repaying them like in Episode 15 "Don't say goodbye" when he gives TC all the money he was paid from his client. Blood brothers is a great description but even deeper than that the guys are trauma victims all healing in their own way and they all know that. At the volleyball game when TM asks TC if he ever has flashbacks and he says no, they both know he meant yes and there was a mutual understanding in each others faces.

I would like to speculate that during the first season and maybe the second the actors were adjusting to stage names vs real names. It happens all the time, actors mix up each others names and even their own. Tom Selleck goes by Tom and I'm sure on set it was a hard habit to break. I'm sure there are lost blooper reels somewhere with evidence of this in nearly every show created.

Absolutely! Surely that is to be considered, an actor mixing up names between Magnum and Selleck. However, so far the scripts and the TV dialog match for the parts in question. Typically the scripts are the screenplay from which actors sometimes depart.

Aside from the name thing Magnum does use TC and Rick but they are willing participants and even tell TM no on occasion. Magnum also has instances of repaying them like in Episode 15 "Don't say goodbye" when he gives TC all the money he was paid from his client.

No-one here said TM is a complete monster. The fact that TM sometimes finally ponies up proves little regarding the proposal I have made about name usage. Let me say before someone gets petty and claim falsely I said TM goes by only two names. Obviously by the related thread I started, I have focused solely on Thomas vs Tom but that does not state nor imply he only has those two names. The extent some people will go because of wounded pride!
Yes, surely TM is sometimes kind towards Rick & TC but it does not change how those two address TM by "Thomas" more formally than "Tom." That usually relates to the kind of social relationship people have. Mark de Croix didn't make it up! That's how society works.

Blood brothers is a great description but even deeper than that the guys are trauma victims all healing in their own way and they all know that. At the volleyball game when TM asks TC if he ever has flashbacks and he says no, they both know he meant yes and there was a mutual understanding in each others faces.

That's great but again it doesn't change how TC addresses TM except for some occasions he might use "TM," a name that straddles formal and informal. Curiously I must ask: Why doesn't TC take the plunge and call TM "Tom," like some of his best friends? Not to mention "Tom" is the default informal form of Thomas!

@☨magnum.t , although your points have appeal and merit, I don't believe they counter what MPI presents---by name usage Rick & TC present themselves as subordinated to TM just as they were in the military. And this relation continues into civilian life by those two serving TM but not getting paid for it!! Yes TM reimburses them for "car fare" but nothing in the way of salary for services performed.