40th Anniversary Watch Party

[☨magnum.t]

IMHO Taylor was a very simple revenge driven character. We cannot discredit the fact that he was willing to let Higgins die in order to fulfill his revenge fantasy though. Magnum was revenge driven several times in the series to the point of Murder but we don't call him crazy or deranged because he would never sacrifice an innocent life. As far as them knowing where the Claymore mine came from or who planted it US forces most always do a BDA (battle damage assessment) and would know through post examination and intelligence what happened and who did it. After action reports are a very important part to battlefield intelligence. Also there is no better place for drug smuggling than the middle of a war. I was in Afghanistan 2009 and 2010 in the Badghis providence on the Turkmenistan border and all of the "insurgents" we encountered were more likely heroin pushers and poppy farmers, the area was rife with it.

[charybdis1966]

BUMP

No new episode was aired: Repeat

March 11, 1982

[CBS 8:00] Magnum, P.I.
Billy Joe Bob
Season 2, episode 1

A hot-headed Texan comes to Hawaii and hires Magnum to find his sister, who was a nightclub singer before going missing.

(Repeat program, originally aired 10/8/1981)

I saw this again recently as I'd bought the Season 2 DVD's as a new year pick-me-up and the thing I noticed this time was Hollywood's propensity to stereo type non urban Americans as unsophisticated and/or uncouth as with their approach to Billy Joe Bob.

I'm not sure why this irritates me so much as I'm neither American or non urban but if I was I'd find this mockery a bit insulting - the same as for any character from the mid west/fly-over country(I hate that expression), eg Adelaide Malone, Cindy Lewellyn and others I can't remember right now.

Apologies if I sound curmudgeonly today.

They did this in The Elmo Ziller story as well even making fun of Lexi Ziller's accent to her face, of course they thought it a prank by Higgins but there is a common trend in MPI to make fun of the country bumpkin/hick characters. I am from the mountains of East Tennessee and often get funny looks for the way I talk whenever I travel. Most people find it interesting or ask where I am from but I have never been made fun of for it.

People in general are usually quite friendly on a personal level so I'd guess not many would actually make fun of you to your face, it was more the Hollywood tendency to think that "hicks/rednecks" were fair game as subjects of comedy.

Maybe some of it is unintentional - a case in point being the origin of circus clowns. In Victorian England they were lampooning the Irish as a racial stereotype - the red hair, the pale skin, the ill-fitting clothes (due to hand me downs necessary in large, catholic families etc..) the car over-filled with people (numerous kids from the aforementioned large families) and yet most are unaware of the origins of circus clowns.

[Mark de Croix]

BUMP

No new episode was aired: Repeat

March 11, 1982

[CBS 8:00] Magnum, P.I.
Billy Joe Bob
Season 2, episode 1

A hot-headed Texan comes to Hawaii and hires Magnum to find his sister, who was a nightclub singer before going missing.

(Repeat program, originally aired 10/8/1981)

I saw this again recently as I'd bought the Season 2 DVD's as a new year pick-me-up and the thing I noticed this time was Hollywood's propensity to stereo type non urban Americans as unsophisticated and/or uncouth as with their approach to Billy Joe Bob.

I'm not sure why this irritates me so much as I'm neither American or non urban but if I was I'd find this mockery a bit insulting - the same as for any character from the mid west/fly-over country(I hate that expression), eg Adelaide Malone, Cindy Lewellyn and others I can't remember right now.

Apologies if I sound curmudgeonly today.

They did this in The Elmo Ziller story as well even making fun of Lexi Ziller's accent to her face, of course they thought it a prank by Higgins but there is a common trend in MPI to make fun of the country bumpkin/hick characters. I am from the mountains of East Tennessee and often get funny looks for the way I talk whenever I travel. Most people find it interesting or ask where I am from but I have never been made fun of for it.

People in general are usually quite friendly on a personal level so I'd guess not many would actually make fun of you to your face, it was more the Hollywood tendency to think that "hicks/rednecks" were fair game as subjects of comedy.

Maybe some of it is unintentional - a case in point being the origin of circus clowns. In Victorian England they were lampooning the Irish as a racial stereotype - the red hair, the pale skin, the ill-fitting clothes (due to hand me downs necessary in large, catholic families etc..) the car over-filled with people (numerous kids from the aforementioned large families) and yet most are unaware of the origins of circus clowns.

[let me switch to my alter ego, my namesake here:]
Very interesting about the clown. My cuz Tom Magnum and I share some Irish heritage but never heard about this clown caricature before. Kinda funny actually even to we Irish. Of course the red hair derives from the Vikings who visited the Emerald Isle long ago. Do you remember where you heard the origin story?

[Mark de Croix]

[back to the real Mark, excuse me]
Me, too, I'm unhappy with the continual putdowns of people from "fly over country," though I'm from an urban background. Unfortunately its deeply rooted in us, the city vs. country dichotomy, as I found out when I entered college with much diversity. From this present perspective, the problem with stereotypes is that they usually possess a kernel of truth. It wouldn't be hard to find some Billy Bobs in Texas at least in appearance and I am pretty sure temperament as well. Scriptwriters could say, "I knew a guy in school just like that." The cultural difference might invite some amusing moments ripe for exploiting in a story. Then too, the writer could say, "why not use stereotypes, that's how people think."

[Pahonu]

BUMP

No new episode was aired: Repeat

March 11, 1982

[CBS 8:00] Magnum, P.I.
Billy Joe Bob
Season 2, episode 1

A hot-headed Texan comes to Hawaii and hires Magnum to find his sister, who was a nightclub singer before going missing.

(Repeat program, originally aired 10/8/1981)

I saw this again recently as I'd bought the Season 2 DVD's as a new year pick-me-up and the thing I noticed this time was Hollywood's propensity to stereo type non urban Americans as unsophisticated and/or uncouth as with their approach to Billy Joe Bob.

I'm not sure why this irritates me so much as I'm neither American or non urban but if I was I'd find this mockery a bit insulting - the same as for any character from the mid west/fly-over country(I hate that expression), eg Adelaide Malone, Cindy Lewellyn and others I can't remember right now.

Apologies if I sound curmudgeonly today.

They did this in The Elmo Ziller story as well even making fun of Lexi Ziller's accent to her face, of course they thought it a prank by Higgins but there is a common trend in MPI to make fun of the country bumpkin/hick characters. I am from the mountains of East Tennessee and often get funny looks for the way I talk whenever I travel. Most people find it interesting or ask where I am from but I have never been made fun of for it.

People in general are usually quite friendly on a personal level so I'd guess not many would actually make fun of you to your face, it was more the Hollywood tendency to think that "hicks/rednecks" were fair game as subjects of comedy.

Maybe some of it is unintentional - a case in point being the origin of circus clowns. In Victorian England they were lampooning the Irish as a racial stereotype - the red hair, the pale skin, the ill-fitting clothes (due to hand me downs necessary in large, catholic families etc..) the car over-filled with people (numerous kids from the aforementioned large families) and yet most are unaware of the origins of circus clowns.

I’ve not come across anything directly relating to circus clowns and Irish stereotypes, but I recall reading an article about such stereotypes in political cartoons here in the US in the 19th century. My family is of Irish and English ancestry and as a history teacher, political cartoons are always on my radar. The cartoons included some of what you describe, such as ill-fitting clothes. As these were black and white line drawings, they couldn’t show red hair, but unruly hair was often depicted, and something you didn’t mention, a bulbous (perhaps red) nose as an insinuation of alcohol abuse. I’ll see if I can find anything on the topic.

[Mark de Croix]

BUMP

I saw this again recently as I'd bought the Season 2 DVD's as a new year pick-me-up and the thing I noticed this time was Hollywood's propensity to stereo type non urban Americans as unsophisticated and/or uncouth as with their approach to Billy Joe Bob.

I'm not sure why this irritates me so much as I'm neither American or non urban but if I was I'd find this mockery a bit insulting - the same as for any character from the mid west/fly-over country(I hate that expression), eg Adelaide Malone, Cindy Lewellyn and others I can't remember right now.

Apologies if I sound curmudgeonly today.

They did this in The Elmo Ziller story as well even making fun of Lexi Ziller's accent to her face, of course they thought it a prank by Higgins but there is a common trend in MPI to make fun of the country bumpkin/hick characters. I am from the mountains of East Tennessee and often get funny looks for the way I talk whenever I travel. Most people find it interesting or ask where I am from but I have never been made fun of for it.

People in general are usually quite friendly on a personal level so I'd guess not many would actually make fun of you to your face, it was more the Hollywood tendency to think that "hicks/rednecks" were fair game as subjects of comedy.

Maybe some of it is unintentional - a case in point being the origin of circus clowns. In Victorian England they were lampooning the Irish as a racial stereotype - the red hair, the pale skin, the ill-fitting clothes (due to hand me downs necessary in large, catholic families etc..) the car over-filled with people (numerous kids from the aforementioned large families) and yet most are unaware of the origins of circus clowns.

I’ve not come across anything directly relating to circus clowns and Irish stereotypes, but I recall reading an article about such stereotypes in political cartoons here in the US in the 19th century. My family is of Irish and English ancestry and as a history teacher, political cartoons are always on my radar. The cartoons included some of what you describe, such as ill-fitting clothes. As these were black and white line drawings, they couldn’t show red hair, but unruly hair was often depicted, and something you didn’t mention, a bulbous (perhaps red) nose as an insinuation of alcohol abuse. I’ll see if I can find anything on the topic.

Despite all that the Irish played a huge roll in the development of the U.S. They were aided by their numbers, knowing English, and maybe more importantly their Catholic schools.

[Pahonu]

I saw this again recently as I'd bought the Season 2 DVD's as a new year pick-me-up and the thing I noticed this time was Hollywood's propensity to stereo type non urban Americans as unsophisticated and/or uncouth as with their approach to Billy Joe Bob.

I'm not sure why this irritates me so much as I'm neither American or non urban but if I was I'd find this mockery a bit insulting - the same as for any character from the mid west/fly-over country(I hate that expression), eg Adelaide Malone, Cindy Lewellyn and others I can't remember right now.

Apologies if I sound curmudgeonly today.

They did this in The Elmo Ziller story as well even making fun of Lexi Ziller's accent to her face, of course they thought it a prank by Higgins but there is a common trend in MPI to make fun of the country bumpkin/hick characters. I am from the mountains of East Tennessee and often get funny looks for the way I talk whenever I travel. Most people find it interesting or ask where I am from but I have never been made fun of for it.

People in general are usually quite friendly on a personal level so I'd guess not many would actually make fun of you to your face, it was more the Hollywood tendency to think that "hicks/rednecks" were fair game as subjects of comedy.

Maybe some of it is unintentional - a case in point being the origin of circus clowns. In Victorian England they were lampooning the Irish as a racial stereotype - the red hair, the pale skin, the ill-fitting clothes (due to hand me downs necessary in large, catholic families etc..) the car over-filled with people (numerous kids from the aforementioned large families) and yet most are unaware of the origins of circus clowns.

I’ve not come across anything directly relating to circus clowns and Irish stereotypes, but I recall reading an article about such stereotypes in political cartoons here in the US in the 19th century. My family is of Irish and English ancestry and as a history teacher, political cartoons are always on my radar. The cartoons included some of what you describe, such as ill-fitting clothes. As these were black and white line drawings, they couldn’t show red hair, but unruly hair was often depicted, and something you didn’t mention, a bulbous (perhaps red) nose as an insinuation of alcohol abuse. I’ll see if I can find anything on the topic.

Despite all that the Irish played a huge roll in the development of the U.S. They were aided by their numbers, knowing English, and maybe more importantly their Catholic schools.

Indeed, they played a massive role. The Irish and Germans formed the largest groups in the first big wave of immigration to the US in the decades immediately prior to the Civil War. Unfortunately, nativism took hold in the form of anti-Papist sentiment, as it was often called, leading to the creation of an anti-Catholic political party nicknamed the Know Nothings. Their target was largely the Irish and to a lesser extent Germans.

[charybdis1966]

Maybe some of it is unintentional - a case in point being the origin of circus clowns. In Victorian England they were lampooning the Irish as a racial stereotype - the red hair, the pale skin, the ill-fitting clothes (due to hand me downs necessary in large, catholic families etc..) the car over-filled with people (numerous kids from the aforementioned large families) and yet most are unaware of the origins of circus clowns.

[let me switch to my alter ego, my namesake here:]
Very interesting about the clown. My cuz Tom Magnum and I share some Irish heritage but never heard about this clown caricature before. Kinda funny actually even to we Irish. Of course the red hair derives from the Vikings who visited the Emerald Isle long ago. Do you remember where you heard the origin story?

Hello Mark/alter-ego,

I remember seeing it on a BBC documentary about victorian societa l values a while back and it reminded me of one of the many reasons I hate the circus after being taken to one on a school visit.

[charybdis1966]

[back to the real Mark, excuse me]
Me, too, I'm unhappy with the continual putdowns of people from "fly over country," though I'm from an urban background. Unfortunately its deeply rooted in us, the city vs. country dichotomy, as I found out when I entered college with much diversity. From this present perspective, the problem with stereotypes is that they usually possess a kernel of truth. It wouldn't be hard to find some Billy Bobs in Texas at least in appearance and I am pretty sure temperament as well. Scriptwriters could say, "I knew a guy in school just like that." The cultural difference might invite some amusing moments ripe for exploiting in a story. Then too, the writer could say, "why not use stereotypes, that's how people think."

Hello Mr Real Mark

As a scientist by education (although I'm an accountant by trade) I always hated this logical inconsistency whereby some stereo types are acceptable are some are not. Like I said, I've no affiliation to non urban Americans (I'm a second generation south asian immigrant) but I've disliked the scornful attitude shown to those of the mid west or south of the US.

[charybdis1966]

I’ve not come across anything directly relating to circus clowns and Irish stereotypes, but I recall reading an article about such stereotypes in political cartoons here in the US in the 19th century. My family is of Irish and English ancestry and as a history teacher, political cartoons are always on my radar. The cartoons included some of what you describe, such as ill-fitting clothes. As these were black and white line drawings, they couldn’t show red hair, but unruly hair was often depicted, and something you didn’t mention, a bulbous (perhaps red) nose as an insinuation of alcohol abuse. I’ll see if I can find anything on the topic.

Yes, that's exactly it Pahonu - the red nose was another indicator of the lazy stereo type of Irish being perpetual drunks.

[Mark de Croix]

[back to the real Mark, excuse me]
Me, too, I'm unhappy with the continual putdowns of people from "fly over country," though I'm from an urban background. Unfortunately its deeply rooted in us, the city vs. country dichotomy, as I found out when I entered college with much diversity. From this present perspective, the problem with stereotypes is that they usually possess a kernel of truth. It wouldn't be hard to find some Billy Bobs in Texas at least in appearance and I am pretty sure temperament as well. Scriptwriters could say, "I knew a guy in school just like that." The cultural difference might invite some amusing moments ripe for exploiting in a story. Then too, the writer could say, "why not use stereotypes, that's how people think."

Hello Mr Real Mark

As a scientist by education (although I'm an accountant by trade) I always hated this logical inconsistency whereby some stereo types are acceptable are some are not. Like I said, I've no affiliation to non urban Americans (I''m a second generation south asian immigrant) but I've disliked the scornful attitude shown to those of the mid west or south of the US.

The scornful attitude actually exists nationally from coast to coast because there are pockets of rural areas throughout. People in those pockets feel the scorn almost daily whenever they tune into mass media. This city vs. county divide is probably natural from what I have seen in other countries. But I wonder if it might actually be heightened more in the US because of what I sense is a national cynicalness fired by what some research finds is a propensity by US mass media toward reporting negativity.

Recently, a friend recommended this song by the Eagles: The Last Resort. We mutually enjoyed it, but I wondered why we were so enamored by it as the song lyrics seem so cynical, a sarcastic view of the founding of the US, going from the East Coast to the apparent spoiling of Hawaii. Delightful imagery as:
"Just like the missionaries did so many years ago
They even brought a neon sign 'Jesus is Coming'
Brought the white man's burden down
Brought the white man's reign"
This national cynicalness starts early when children mock extravagant claims they hear on TV commercials between their cartoons. So anything apart from the norm gets mocked, satirized, which may extend to non-mainstream social groups--rural, ethnic, national--the latter a good example being Canadian putdowns. Another thing I cringe about because our countries have the unique distinction of sharing the longest demilitarized international border (I believe!). The continual never-ending onslaught of cynicism I find so tiring and, I guess, shared especially by people in "fly-over country."

[Mark de Croix]

Maybe some of it is unintentional - a case in point being the origin of circus clowns. In Victorian England they were lampooning the Irish as a racial stereotype - the red hair, the pale skin, the ill-fitting clothes (due to hand me downs necessary in large, catholic families etc..) the car over-filled with people (numerous kids from the aforementioned large families) and yet most are unaware of the origins of circus clowns.

[let me switch to my alter ego, my namesake here:]
Very interesting about the clown. My cuz Tom Magnum and I share some Irish heritage but never heard about this clown caricature before. Kinda funny actually even to we Irish. Of course the red hair derives from the Vikings who visited the Emerald Isle long ago. Do you remember where you heard the origin story?

Hello Mark/aler-ego,

I remember seeing it on a BBC documentary about victorian societa l values a while back and it reminded me of one of the many reasons I hate the circus after being taken to one on a school visit.

charybdis1966, I see how your destiny to become a scientist took root. Interesting that you developed such a negative view of circus. (Real-Mark speaking) Maybe my earliest memory (3 or 4) is of my dad taking me to a circus and I sat bawling at sight of a ferocious lion in a cage before us. I'm not negative about circus but would wonder if it could really entertain me. So I've never bought a ticket to go to one. I might just for the tradition of it. As a child I was enthralled by circus movies like Dumbo, such that I used to play "circus train" with our pet dog and cat, though the cat always rebelled, whose scratches led me to have "cat fever."

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

Hi Ivan,

The crucial element is that Ed's wife reports that the landmine was not set by Vietcong.
That changes everything how we look at Ed. He killed the wrong person. That's not enough to think he might be insane? Doubtless he had PTSD but that cannot rule out insanity.

But in the end did he not kill a Viet Cong? Maybe not the man responsible for Ed's death but still an enemy who fought against him and Ed in the war. So not exactly an innocent person. I can't argue differences between PTSD and insanity so I'll leave it at that.

[Mark de Croix]

Hi Ivan,

The crucial element is that Ed's wife reports that the landmine was not set by Vietcong.
That changes everything how we look at Ed. He killed the wrong person. That's not enough to think he might be insane? Doubtless he had PTSD but that cannot rule out insanity.

But in the end did he not kill a Viet Cong? Maybe not the man responsible for Ed's death but still an enemy who fought against him and Ed in the war. So not exactly an innocent person. I can't argue differences between PTSD and insanity so I'll leave it at that.

Thanks for the post, Ivan. You make interesting commentary. Just for the sake of discussion, though, aren't you assuming that the General deserved to die, simply for being an enemy? Where would you draw the line as to who deserves death and who, not? Wouldn't you have difficulty proving that the US was in the right about the war? Isn't it fairly well discredited today? My observation of American culture is that people tend to overuse situational reasons for their ill-behavior. How many times have we heard people try to squirm out their responsibility for drunken driving using lame excuses (as an example)? People here want to say Taylor had PTSD so how could he help it? All that is not the issue because he killed an innocent man. Peace bro.

[T.Q.]

March 18th, 1982

[CBS 8:00] Magnum, P.I.

[Episode "The Elmo Ziller Story pre-empted, aired 3/25/1982.]



And we wait 'til next week...