J. "Digger" Doyle (1.17)

[marlboro]

Glad to hear it. I will definitely check those out.

I've been enjoying Rifftrax for a while - you ever watch those? Those guys have been doing live shows in Nashville and I've been meaning to go check them out but I've never gotten around to it.

[J.J. Walters]

Yep! LOVE RiffTrax (and Cinematic Titanic)! Love those new shorts they do on RiffTrax! Anything that Joel, Michael J. Nelson, Kevin Murphy, Bill Corbett, Trace Beaulieu, J. Elvis, Frank Conniff and Mary Jo Pehl are involved in, I'm game! I saw the MST3K Live show last summer in Baltimore (with Joel and Jonah Ray), which was GREAT! They did a new live version of Eegah (one of my favorites from the original series). I had VIP tickets, so I got to briefly meet Joel and Jonah, and had my picture taken with them. Awesome experience!

We are getting way of topic here, so I'll create a MST3K thread in the KKC forum... Carry on folks with the J. Digger discussion.

Edit: Um, not the KKC forum, the "Other TV Shows" forum! Good lord, I don't even know my own forum's sub-forums!

[#1 Buzzettes Fan]

Higgins is indeed NOT Robin Masters. Why would WE be shown the interior of a private plane and Orson Wells contracted to be the voice? Robin is a separate character that they clumsily tried to create doubt about later on.

Exactly. We see Robin dictating himself on the plane. The suggestion later on is so contradictory that it only works for casual viewers of the show during the original broadcast whose memories of earlier episodes had faded. As sure as man landed on the moon, Robin wrote those novels. Higgins was even willing to resign from his duties for the breach of the estate.

This was a very fun episode. I loved the footage of the radio facility and Rick drawing the line at Doyle telling him what weapon to use while on guard. I think Rick is my favorite character. He cracks me up every time.

[K Hale]

Higgins is indeed NOT Robin Masters. Why would WE be shown the interior of a private plane and Orson Wells contracted to be the voice? Robin is a separate character that they clumsily tried to create doubt about later on.

Exactly. We see Robin dictating himself on the plane. The suggestion later on is so contradictory that it only works for casual viewers of the show during the original broadcast whose memories of earlier episodes had faded. As sure as man landed on the moon, Robin wrote those novels. Higgins was even willing to resign from his duties for the breach of the estate.

Higgins and Robin are unequivocally two different people. Each is who he says he is and nobody is using an alias to hide their real identity. If that were the case, it would take Magnum five seconds to run a background check and find out; the man is a professional private investigator. Since he grew all those suspicions, he would have done just that in order to be able to prove it. Quote from "Tigers Fan": "I can now control Higgins, because I know his secret." Then one scene later he gets nervous because Higgins says he has told Robin about Magnum's theory. As TC says, why should that bother Magnum if Robin is some John Doe impostor?

However...

All that has nothing to do with whether or not Robin is the author of the novels. That is the real question, not the distraction of "is Higgins Robin Masters." In my opinion, Higgins is indeed ghostwriting the novels, and has been for many years, probably since not long after he arrived at Robin's Nest.

Consider.

We have seen that Higgins controls the money ("Missing Melody," "Transitions") and Robin controls the house ("Squeeze Play," "Birdman of Budapest," all early 1st season episodes where it's clear Higgins cannot order Magnum off the estate as he wanted to). Robin already owned the house when Higgins arrived in 1972 ("Case of the Red Faced Thespian"), which means he already had the wherewithal to buy that kind of real estate, so either he inherited or made his money in another industry OR he really did have some success as a writer. We also know from the same episode that the previous majordomo was fired by Robin (though we don't know why) so that Higgins could take his place. And we know Higgins himself is a writer with a flair for the dramatic. Personally I think Higgins began to give suggestions or assist or revise the novels and eventually got to where he was writing them, basing the writing on the tapes Robin sends with the characters, plot, and outline. The exception is "Die and Die Again," which Higgins clearly has not read ("Man from Marseilles"), and which Magnum reads and states that it isn't like the other Masters novels -- and of course it isn't, because Robin wrote it himself.

As for Higgins dictating his resignation, what he actually says indicates he is resigning as majordomo, but he's not taking an unnamed further step: "Perhaps I have reached the age when my experience and techniques have been outdated by recent technological advancements in the field. I assure you, my decision in no way affects..." and here he is cut off by the bike accident. So what is that further step that his decision to resign as majordomo not going to affect? The writing of the novels, perhaps?

For what it's worth, I read somewhere that the idea of "Higgins as Robin" (in whatever incarnation) was floated by Jay Huguely as far back as season 2.

[Kevster]

Several years ago, I came up with a storyline for a reunion movie, and the premise of the thing was Higgins passing (which wasn't to be legit, but a chance for Higgins to bring the guys together one last time...) and a subsequent threat to Robin's Nest by a developer (BOY! Wasn't that prescient?).

The idea I had was that Robin Masters, which was not the guy's real name, was a war buddy of Higgins and who'd once saved Higgins' life. They'd concocted a scheme to combine the war buddy's personal charm with Higgins' writing flair. Higgins ghost-wrote the novels and got to live a less public life, which was more of what he really preferred, and "RM" was the figure-head or public face of the author (as well as a researcher, inspiration, etc.). However, the guy couldn't write particularly well, while Higgins could and was disciplined enough to do it. They both lived well via this agreement, and NATURALLY Higgins "inherited" the bulk of the estate upon the death of the faux RM.

Being alive and in his 90's, the first part of the final scene was to be the satisfied face of Higgins framed in the window of a private plane taking off from Hawaii with the Lady Ashley (finally got his girl!!!). Having witnessed the guys working together to save Robin's Nest, Higgins left without actually connecting with the guys. Of course, they found out that they "jointly inherited" Robin's Nest from Higgins, and Higgins confessed the whole RM / Higgins story in his will.

The second part of the final scene was the guys standing on the beach saying "goodbye to Higgins" while seeing "Robin's" private jet climbing after take off from the nearby private airport (so what if it doesn't exist). End with the TM fourth wall break where TM / TS acknowledges the mental realization and wondering what's up with the jet (RM /Higgins?).

[Mad Kudu Buck]

For what it's worth, I read somewhere that the idea of "Higgins as Robin" (in whatever incarnation) was floated by Jay Huguely as far back as season 2.

How can that be? Jay Huguely didn't start writing for Magnum PI until season 4.
(I think of Jay Huguely's arrival as the start of the rot. Nearly all of his episodes sucked.)

[K Hale]

For what it's worth, I read somewhere that the idea of "Higgins as Robin" (in whatever incarnation) was floated by Jay Huguely as far back as season 2.

How can that be? Jay Huguely didn't start writing for Magnum PI until season 4.
(I think of Jay Huguely's arrival as the start of the rot. Nearly all of his episodes sucked.)

Perhaps it was season four, or it wasn't Huguely. Maybe what I remember is Huguely saying Selleck thought of it in season two. Anyway, what I read indicated the idea started a lot earlier than season seven. I read it on here.

[KingKC]

For what it's worth, I read somewhere that the idea of "Higgins as Robin" (in whatever incarnation) was floated by Jay Huguely as far back as season 2.

How can that be? Jay Huguely didn't start writing for Magnum PI until season 4.
(I think of Jay Huguely's arrival as the start of the rot. Nearly all of his episodes sucked.)

I did a lot of statistical analysis of the seasons and what the members thought through their ratings if you want to check that out in The Best and Weakest Seasons under Magnum P I Talk. Season 5 is when the show's ratings by both Nielson and the members started to severely taper off. Some attributed that more to The Cosby Show as competition.

[Kevster]

For what it's worth, I read somewhere that the idea of "Higgins as Robin" (in whatever incarnation) was floated by Jay Huguely as far back as season 2.

How can that be? Jay Huguely didn't start writing for Magnum PI until season 4.
(I think of Jay Huguely's arrival as the start of the rot. Nearly all of his episodes sucked.)

I did a lot of statistical analysis of the seasons and what the members thought through their ratings if you want to check that out in The Best and Weakest Seasons under Magnum P I Talk. Season 5 is when the show's ratings by both Nielson and the members started to severely taper off. Some attributed that more to The Cosby Show as competition.

The Cosby Show was a powerhouse, and I don't see how that CAN'T have impacted MPI ratings when they were on the same night.

However, the tone of the show changed by Season 5, which was both good and bad. Whether it was the maturing of the characters because their actual age warranted it, or if it was a reflection of outside / cultural factors, the later seasons had less emphasis on quasi beach-bum TM, and more of the contemplative TM. Those changes added depth, while the show runner(s) were allowing compromises and formulaic tendencies to creep in.

Regardless, I think it was the changes in the core creative team led to any negatives.

I've seen something SO OFTEN that I can't see how this is not true... I genuinely believe that many writers/creators for successful movies and television don't actually recognize core aspects of why projects are successful. This becomes truly evident in sequels or successive seasons. When suddenly "the magic is/was gone," I believe that the creative team did not fully recognize the source of the magic to begin with.

In the 1970's, you had the Star Trek revival via a motion picture, and many of the same creative people totally whiffed the ball. They realized their error, and the second film was the best of the series of movies. Star Trek's interpretation of "2001" failed, but a character driven story worked.

And then we have the MPI reboot... LOL!

[ENSHealy]

FORUM FLASHBACKS

We know this makes no sense based on where everything really is, but it really makes no sense, even in the show, because, as based on this sketch, when one enters the property and drives in on the driveway, one would go past the guesthouse before getting to the main house!! That never occurred, of course. And this also defeats all those episodes where Magnum and others walked back through the walkway to the right (as you face it) of the main house to go to (or come from) the guesthouse, which one wouldn't have to do based on this sketch layout.

The gatehouse is shown MUCH farther from the road than (1) it really is and (2) than it was ever shown as being in the show. Now, the two buildings on the lower part of the sketch may be labeled incorrectly, but if one is the guesthouse where TM lived, what's the other? Was a boathouse ever seen? But still NEITHER would be accessed by walking out to the right and in back of the main house. And no building but the gatehouse is passed when driving up the driveway. If this were the case, there would be no reason for TM to ever drive up to the main house -- he'd just stop and park by the guesthouse.

Hi golf,
I believe that what you think (at least at the time you wrote the above) is the guesthouse and main house are not what the writers/authors meant in that pic. I believe in your interpretation above, your thinking the guest house is the large structure right on the beach, and the main house are the structures situated in the middle of the sketch? I actually believe the following is what they meant each structure to be:

Also, in my memory, TM usually goes through the arch and left to get to the theoretical location of the guest house, which would line up with what we see in the sketch.

I guess what bugs me most about the sketch is that if it is only the 5 acre main estate that’s wired for security, and the whole estate is 200 acres, then part of it must be at a different location, because there’s only room for about 20 acres “extending from mauka to makai” in that sketch.

Can I confess something? I'm only one third finished with season 8... Ahh, there, feels good to get that off my chest. I've been spending my "Magnum time" looking for locations mostly, which leaves less time for the actual show. That's also why I don't post here as much as I used to. Plus I got a 40" LCD HDTV recently and for me, Magnum P.I. just isn't the same when viewed digitally. I like watching on normal CRT TVs, which are much more appropriate. But now the old CRT is in another room with less comfy seating. All this has totally messed with Magnum viewing!

I hear you, rubber chicken! I currently watch on either a 32” flat screen or my laptop. I found an article from 1985 that mentions “…a standard 25-inch tube screen” and its always sort of nagged at me that I really ought to be watching these on one of those. Although I’m not sure that would even be possible with a DVD player? But I think you could probably use the old red-white-yellow cables?

The episode features what I consider to be one of the funniest scenes of the series, when Magnum tries to recruit T.C. to help out, but T.C. has got a high-paying piloting job with some millionaires; As the couple pull up, Magnum pretends to be sick after flying with T.C., putting them off. Okay, so you need to see it to get it, but it is one of the most laugh-out-loud moments of the series for me (even if it is a little below the belt of Magnum).

I actually had the reverse feeling. I felt that this is probably one of the low points for TM in the whole series. $7,000 plus a bonus? And he screws TC out of it on the unconfirmed suspicion that StarGuard will match that? And even if they did, what about the future business for T.C. that having a happy rich client like that might generate, even in just referrals? I have to say, it’s probably the only time in the entire series where Thomas does something and I thought “wow….what an a-hole.”

Don should have gone to CBS and told them he wants Erin to be a regular cast member. Think how much better all the future episodes would have been with Digger as an equal team member starting in season two and ongoing until the end.

I agree with Steve in that a footloose and fancy free Magnum was the way to go, because they probably would have done a romantic arc that would have had it go all Moonlighting.

These two comments had me thinking about the reboot. Hopefully it’s not sub-conscious misogyny, but one of the parts I dislike most about the reboot is that the new Higgins is more or less Minimag’s partner. I’ve [forced myself to] watch 10 of the episodes, and it seems like the show really should have been titled “Magnum & Higgins” or “Magnum gets a partner.” I don’t mind so much the fact that Higgins is a woman, but I wish they’d have kept the role the same, having her more as a foil.

Then there’s the part about the impending romance. Dob Ibold hit it on the head. Moonlighting died when Dave and Maddie hooked up, and when Minimag and Shiggins do, the new one will jump the shark as well (well, maybe stick the landing…they’re already in the air over the shark.)

This is the main episode I point towards in my theory that Higgins could not be Robin. Why would Higgins prepare a resignation letter in private if he was the man that owned the estate?

Nailed it.

[ENSHealy]

1.16 J. DIGGER DOYLE
Hawaiian shirts: 1 black with white flowers
Island Hopper shirts: 1 light blue with dark blue logo
Magnum Body Count:
Magnum gunshot wounds:
Shirtless: 1
Little Voice:
I know what you’re thinking: .5 “I know, you think I've been taken in by a kiss….”
When I write HTBAWCPI:
Investigator corrections:
Higgins musings: 4
4th wall breaks:
Negotiations:
Famous guest stars: 2 Erin Gray, Orson Welles
Magnumometer: 9.5

Potential magnumania usernames: Mangy pot hound, Malibu Surf Club

NEW FLUB?
Robin's ring changes between scenes on the jet:


EPISODE GUIDE QUIBBLES


Don't forget 4.7 Squeeze Play as well, when Robin shows at the estate up to confront Buzz about the marked deck and the rigged bet.

Where is the estate again?
We know that theoretically the estate is on the North Shore. And I don't think there's any doubt that the KKC is supposed to be in Waikiki. So, if both of those are true...then Thomas ran half way around the island to get to the KKC, where he runs into Digger, who gives him a ride home because he ran all the way there.

CRUCIAL CONVERSATIONS:

Digger: You haven’t had more than 200 dollars in your checking account since you left the Navy.

Higgins: I remember once in 42, I was attached to Alexander's command when a group of Tuaregs captured me on the Qattara. Must have been 130 in the shade. Just going out on patrol in that heat was enough to drive some blokes balmy. Now, technically the Tuaregs were on our side but actually they worked for the highest bidder. Well, Jerry had paid them in gold, and since I only had British pound notes, well, you can see the spot I was in. Well, they tied me out in the heat. Without my hat, of course. Bloody hot in the Qattara. I’ve always been afraid of the sun, since the Qattara.

Higgins: Once, in North Africa when a couple of lads and I had to raid a Jerry supply dump, we ran into a bunch of Bedouin women on a camel. Dromedary actually. Bloody filthy animals. All they want to do is spit on you.
Magnum: Sergeant Major, Jerry patrol up ahead.
Higgins: Right. Mum’s the word, lads.

Higgins: This reminds me of Nepal, fall of 43. I was ordered to get supplies to a Chinese guerrilla outfit fighting high in the Himalayas. No one had ever crossed the Himalayas that late in the year. Even Lord Mountbatten, God rest his soul, didn’t think it could be done. But we were fusiliers. I left with 25 men and a Sherpa guide on the eighth of October. We hit snow at 10,000 feet. And I can tell you, with 50-pound packs on our backs, it was bloody hell. Lost our poor guide somewhere around 12,000 in an avalanche.

Higgins: I remember back in ’63. I was assigned to an army investigative unit in the north of Wales. Had a fascinating case. It seems this private killed his corporal in the latrine because his sergeant had told the private that corporals are invariably homosexual. Then they straighten up again when they get their sergeant stripes. It’s an odd story.

[Lord Ickenham]

In the Hungarian dub, when Higgins says:
"You mean, you had Robin's manuscripts just laying out in the open, with Jefferson Starship, Blondie, and Styx?", these bands were changed to Rolling Stones and Beatles, because in Hungary the originals aren't well knowned. (Well, there are fans of these, but average people don't know them.)

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

Thought I'd post this here because this thread's more active, but guess who showed up in the season premiere of Mystery Science Theater 3000 alongside Wil "Shut up, Wesley!" Wheaton?


Totally fitting, in my opinion.

Hi Chick,
Somebody somewhere on these boards recommended Mystery Science Theater's take on "Code Name: Diamond Head" starring Roy Thinnes of The Invaders fame.
It was a busted 1977 pilot from Quinn Martin. I watched it on You Tube just now, it would be a mess on it's own but as shown via MST it was very funny.
Of interest to Magnum and Hawaii 5-0 fans is all the actors who appeared on those series that show up here, notably Ian McShane and babe for the ages France Nuyen.
Existentialist Nuyen was known for saying "I am Chinese, I am a stone, I go where I am kicked."
Her ex husband Robert Culp said he had to leave her before she destroyed him, between the unremitting sexual fireworks and cosmic mind games(both of them had extremely high IQ's) he finally understood how some men killed themselves over a woman. Culp would have been better off with a nice girl next door type like Agatha.
Well, maybe not. But I digress.
Also appearing is the Hawaiian actor whose name escapes me but notably appeared many times as a bad guy/street muscle on Magnum.
You'll know him right away, he has that kind of face. At around the 17 minute 25 second mark when McShane is in the airport, he appears sitting against the wall reading a paper next to Eric Braeden, blink and you will miss him. He makes for a great bad guy on Magnum, I wish I knew his name.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't trust atoms, they make up everything"
...Brian Moore(my 5th grade classmate)

[Nifty911]

FORUM FLASHBACKS

We know this makes no sense based on where everything really is, but it really makes no sense, even in the show, because, as based on this sketch, when one enters the property and drives in on the driveway, one would go past the guesthouse before getting to the main house!! That never occurred, of course. And this also defeats all those episodes where Magnum and others walked back through the walkway to the right (as you face it) of the main house to go to (or come from) the guesthouse, which one wouldn't have to do based on this sketch layout.

The gatehouse is shown MUCH farther from the road than (1) it really is and (2) than it was ever shown as being in the show. Now, the two buildings on the lower part of the sketch may be labeled incorrectly, but if one is the guesthouse where TM lived, what's the other? Was a boathouse ever seen? But still NEITHER would be accessed by walking out to the right and in back of the main house. And no building but the gatehouse is passed when driving up the driveway. If this were the case, there would be no reason for TM to ever drive up to the main house -- he'd just stop and park by the guesthouse.

Hi golf,
I believe that what you think (at least at the time you wrote the above) is the guesthouse and main house are not what the writers/authors meant in that pic. I believe in your interpretation above, your thinking the guest house is the large structure right on the beach, and the main house are the structures situated in the middle of the sketch? I actually believe the following is what they meant each structure to be:

Also, in my memory, TM usually goes through the arch and left to get to the theoretical location of the guest house, which would line up with what we see in the sketch.

I guess what bugs me most about the sketch is that if it is only the 5 acre main estate that’s wired for security, and the whole estate is 200 acres, then part of it must be at a different location, because there’s only room for about 20 acres “extending from mauka to makai” in that sketch.

Can I confess something? I'm only one third finished with season 8... Ahh, there, feels good to get that off my chest. I've been spending my "Magnum time" looking for locations mostly, which leaves less time for the actual show. That's also why I don't post here as much as I used to. Plus I got a 40" LCD HDTV recently and for me, Magnum P.I. just isn't the same when viewed digitally. I like watching on normal CRT TVs, which are much more appropriate. But now the old CRT is in another room with less comfy seating. All this has totally messed with Magnum viewing!

I hear you, rubber chicken! I currently watch on either a 32” flat screen or my laptop. I found an article from 1985 that mentions “…a standard 25-inch tube screen” and its always sort of nagged at me that I really ought to be watching these on one of those. Although I’m not sure that would even be possible with a DVD player? But I think you could probably use the old red-white-yellow cables?

The episode features what I consider to be one of the funniest scenes of the series, when Magnum tries to recruit T.C. to help out, but T.C. has got a high-paying piloting job with some millionaires; As the couple pull up, Magnum pretends to be sick after flying with T.C., putting them off. Okay, so you need to see it to get it, but it is one of the most laugh-out-loud moments of the series for me (even if it is a little below the belt of Magnum).

I actually had the reverse feeling. I felt that this is probably one of the low points for TM in the whole series. $7,000 plus a bonus? And he screws TC out of it on the unconfirmed suspicion that StarGuard will match that? And even if they did, what about the future business for T.C. that having a happy rich client like that might generate, even in just referrals? I have to say, it’s probably the only time in the entire series where Thomas does something and I thought “wow….what an a-hole.”

Don should have gone to CBS and told them he wants Erin to be a regular cast member. Think how much better all the future episodes would have been with Digger as an equal team member starting in season two and ongoing until the end.

I agree with Steve in that a footloose and fancy free Magnum was the way to go, because they probably would have done a romantic arc that would have had it go all Moonlighting.

These two comments had me thinking about the reboot. Hopefully it’s not sub-conscious misogyny, but one of the parts I dislike most about the reboot is that the new Higgins is more or less Minimag’s partner. I’ve [forced myself to] watch 10 of the episodes, and it seems like the show really should have been titled “Magnum & Higgins” or “Magnum gets a partner.” I don’t mind so much the fact that Higgins is a woman, but I wish they’d have kept the role the same, having her more as a foil.

Then there’s the part about the impending romance. Dob Ibold hit it on the head. Moonlighting died when Dave and Maddie hooked up, and when Minimag and Shiggins do, the new one will jump the shark as well (well, maybe stick the landing…they’re already in the air over the shark.)

This is the main episode I point towards in my theory that Higgins could not be Robin. Why would Higgins prepare a resignation letter in private if he was the man that owned the estate?

Nailed it.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/502546/1 ... -magnum-pi

The first season of Magnum, P.I. was about more than just establishing Tom Selleck as a household name; CBS executives also wanted an episode to act as a backdoor pilot for an action series starring Erin Gray. In the episode “J. ‘Digger’ Doyle,” viewers meet Gray as the titular Doyle, a security expert who Magnum calls on to help thwart a potential assassination attempt against Robin Masters.

Though the episode went off without a hitch, the spinoff never materialized. In fact, Gray never reappeared on the series after that.

[ENSHealy]

Also appearing is the Hawaiian actor whose name escapes me but notably appeared many times as a bad guy/street muscle on Magnum.
You'll know him right away, he has that kind of face. At around the 17 minute 25 second mark when McShane is in the airport, he appears sitting against the wall reading a paper next to Eric Braeden, blink and you will miss him. He makes for a great bad guy on Magnum, I wish I knew his name.

Here he is:


Initially I was thinking Peter Kalua, who was in several episodes:


but now I'm thinking you may have meant Robert Apisa?


But I'm actually not sure the guy in Code Name: Diamond Head was actually in Magnum. Looks like a different guy to me.