The Last Page (2.20)

Rate, review & discuss the episodes from the second season

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10 (Perfect!)
3
3%
9.5 (One of the Best)
5
5%
9.0 (Excellent)
28
30%
8.5 (Very Good)
28
30%
8.0 (Pretty Good)
14
15%
7.5 (Decent)
8
9%
7.0 (Average at Best)
3
3%
6.5 (Not So Good)
1
1%
6.0 (Pretty Bad)
2
2%
5.0 (Just Awful)
2
2%
 
Total votes: 94

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Gorilla Mask
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Re: The Last Page (2.20)

#52 Post by Gorilla Mask »

So I carefully reviewed the episode to try to give my 'two cents' on three questions:

- Is Kam Chung 'clean' ?
- Was Taylor sane?
- Was TM suspicious of him and when?


I won't have the time to go into too much detail: only a summary here. Then we can discuss it.

A/ is Taylor's claim against Kam Chung well-founded or reasonably probable?

I answer in the affirmative.

Indeed, it is known that Chung was a general in the ARVN in 1971, that is to say the South Vietnamese army, trained and equipped by the US. This American support only increased, especially during the policy of Vietnamization of the conflict with the arrival of Nixon in power. Meanwhile, in Laos, the hidden aim was to give training support and armament to Laos Hmongs against North Vietrnam and Pathet Lao Communists. The fact that Taylor refered to Bhin Loc in 1971 is not random : Nixon unleashed his drugs wars precisely that year.

The links that existed between the opium producers of the Golden Triangle (the Hmong), the French (Operation X in the 50's), the Laotian military junta, but especially, after the departure of the French, with the South Vietnamese (post dictator Diem era) and with CIA support, are quite well documented.

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-mag ... wined-asia

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10. ... 3.10406336

(in French) https://vih.org/20170925/histoire-et-ge ... u-sud-est/


a translated extract : "It was then that the American intelligence services returned to the scene, taking up the habit of the murky collaborations of their French colleagues. Collecting numerous testimonies in Laos, this is what Alfred McCoy demonstrated in his book in 1972. The Air America airline, used by the CIA for its clandestine operations in Asia since 1946 (support to the Chinese nationalists, then to the anti-communist forces in Indochina), already transporting supplies, was mobilized to transport... opium cultivated by the Hmongs and the Thais. The war aims were the same as ten years earlier: to ensure the support of the Hmong maquis against North Vietnam and to be able to count on brilliant leaders like General Vang Pao. The traffic thus set up lasted from 1965 to 1971. But it was fraught with perverse effects: produced up to 200 tons annually, opium was refined into heroin in clandestine laboratories in Ventiane or Long Tien, under the cover of Laotian generals like Rattikoun. Then the product found its way into the veins of American soldiers in search of an artificial paradise in the hell of the jungle. These secret CIA operations stopped (curiously...) the same year that President Nixon launched the "war on drugs" in the United States. On the other hand, the agency continued to support the fiercely anti-communist Thai government, turning a blind eye to the involvement of certain military personnel in the opiate trade."

One can imagine that the CIA buy its opium to the Hmongs and montagnards of Northern Laos, in exchange for weapons and military advisors. In return, this opium transits through South Vietnam and Saigon before being "dispersed" in Asia and South-East Asia, probably to allow occult support actions of other US allies in a logic of containment of the communist influence... Before hitting me :roll: :wink: , let me specify that this is a personal hypothesis... In this logic, it does not seem aberrant that high dignitaries of South Vietnam and/or generals have been "bribed" and have made a place for themselves in the juicy traffic.

It is therefore plausible that an ARVN general, with his influence, his autonomy and his level of responsibility, participated directly, or even covered up, indirectly in trafficking operations with northern Laos.

The link between the U.S.-origin mines, the smugglers and the ARVN is, therefore, not implausible.

Of course, some will object: "Why did you lay mines in the area of operations of the American special forces? How could the U.S. Army determine the link between these mines and such and such traffickers? This will remain one of the mysteries, or rather one of the postulates (and there are many) of the MPI scenarios... It is difficult to fit everything into 45 minutes! There are many ellipses...

B/ Regarding Taylor's mental state, I can only answer from the point of view of my profession. I will therefore rephrase the question: would Taylor's mental state have been considered sufficient to escape a criminal conviction?

In other words, is Taylor's will abolished or sufficiently impaired that he may not have been 'discerning' at the time?

From the elements of the episode we can't say that Taylor is acting like a nutcase (or 'crackpot'). Judge for yourself:

From start, he sets up a whole false scheme and story to convince TM to go investigate Chung's girlfriend. So yes, at 16:29 he holds a very good acting game with TM to make him hear that he is the still delusional boyfriend who wants to fight to get his love back, right. Until 34:00, one could think that Taylor is somehow psychotic and out of reality, but his embarrassed fleeing in front of his girlfriend when TM bursts into her house, removes all doubt: He talks about 'another important matter' and leaves... he knows full well that he set up this story to reach Chung, nothing else.
Taylor tells a new and totally different story to TC to get to Chung's private island. We can see that this is more the work of a manipulator (or perhaps also somewhat a pervert in a sense), but not of a person who has lost his mind in the sense of precise and voluntary direction of his actions ;
44:56 : Taylor comes out of his bush, gun drawn, shouting "this is an execution". He is certainly in a very strong emotional state at this point, but he is not acting like a mad man. Moreover, when he asks Chung to explain himself, Chung does NOT deny his version of the facts, but rather tries to play it down: "my subordinates maybe". Moreover, it is only at this moment that we realize that Taylor knows MUCH MORE about Chung's account (including his Swiss bank account...) than the episode can tell us.

Of course, a judge would ask for a psychiatric expertise before submitting the question to a jury, but the prosecution would have no problem demonstrating that Taylor's acts, all his acts, were logical, caused, directed, piloted with a precise goal and that by alluding to "an execution", he is perfectly conscious of the offence and of the criminal fraud he is committing: more than a murder, moreover, an assassination, whatever the reason and its justification.

From a legal point of view: it is highly likely that Taylor would be found fully responsible for his actions at this level. I don't think that what seems to me to be a deep state of manic depression is such as to take away the discernment of his actions.

Of course, there might have been mitigating circumstances to the criminal sentence, but the proven art of deception he used is also against him.

C/ On closer inspection, I didn't find that TM was suspicious of Taylor at first sight. It is only after talking with Higgins, behind his smoking gun :lol: , and getting information from Rick, that the pieces of the puzzle form in TM's mind (28:43). So it's not a distrust, but rather a suspicion, sorry ,Mark, so I revise my initial assessment! :magnum:
"Je sais ce que vous allez me dire, et vous aurez raison..."

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Mark de Croix
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Re: The Last Page (2.20)

#53 Post by Mark de Croix »

Gorilla Mask wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:28 pm So I carefully reviewed the episode to try to give my 'two cents' on three questions:

- Is Kam Chung 'clean' ?
- Was Taylor sane?
- Was TM suspicious of him and when?


I won't have the time to go into too much detail: only a summary here. Then we can discuss it.

A/ is Taylor's claim against Kam Chung well-founded or reasonably probable?

I answer in the affirmative.

Indeed, it is known that Chung was a general in the ARVN in 1971, that is to say the South Vietnamese army, trained and equipped by the US. This American support only increased, especially during the policy of Vietnamization of the conflict with the arrival of Nixon in power. Meanwhile, in Laos, the hidden aim was to give training support and armament to Laos Hmongs against North Vietrnam and Pathet Lao Communists. The fact that Taylor refered to Bhin Loc in 1971 is not random : Nixon unleashed his drugs wars precisely that year.

The links that existed between the opium producers of the Golden Triangle (the Hmong), the French (Operation X in the 50's), the Laotian military junta, but especially, after the departure of the French, with the South Vietnamese (post dictator Diem era) and with CIA support, are quite well documented.

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-mag ... wined-asia

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10. ... 3.10406336

(in French) https://vih.org/20170925/histoire-et-ge ... u-sud-est/


a translated extract : "It was then that the American intelligence services returned to the scene, taking up the habit of the murky collaborations of their French colleagues. Collecting numerous testimonies in Laos, this is what Alfred McCoy demonstrated in his book in 1972. The Air America airline, used by the CIA for its clandestine operations in Asia since 1946 (support to the Chinese nationalists, then to the anti-communist forces in Indochina), already transporting supplies, was mobilized to transport... opium cultivated by the Hmongs and the Thais. The war aims were the same as ten years earlier: to ensure the support of the Hmong maquis against North Vietnam and to be able to count on brilliant leaders like General Vang Pao. The traffic thus set up lasted from 1965 to 1971. But it was fraught with perverse effects: produced up to 200 tons annually, opium was refined into heroin in clandestine laboratories in Ventiane or Long Tien, under the cover of Laotian generals like Rattikoun. Then the product found its way into the veins of American soldiers in search of an artificial paradise in the hell of the jungle. These secret CIA operations stopped (curiously...) the same year that President Nixon launched the "war on drugs" in the United States. On the other hand, the agency continued to support the fiercely anti-communist Thai government, turning a blind eye to the involvement of certain military personnel in the opiate trade."

One can imagine that the CIA buy its opium to the Hmongs and montagnards of Northern Laos, in exchange for weapons and military advisors. In return, this opium transits through South Vietnam and Saigon before being "dispersed" in Asia and South-East Asia, probably to allow occult support actions of other US allies in a logic of containment of the communist influence... Before hitting me :roll: :wink: , let me specify that this is a personal hypothesis... In this logic, it does not seem aberrant that high dignitaries of South Vietnam and/or generals have been "bribed" and have made a place for themselves in the juicy traffic.

It is therefore plausible that an ARVN general, with his influence, his autonomy and his level of responsibility, participated directly, or even covered up, indirectly in trafficking operations with northern Laos.

The link between the U.S.-origin mines, the smugglers and the ARVN is, therefore, not implausible.

Of course, some will object: "Why did you lay mines in the area of operations of the American special forces? How could the U.S. Army determine the link between these mines and such and such traffickers? This will remain one of the mysteries, or rather one of the postulates (and there are many) of the MPI scenarios... It is difficult to fit everything into 45 minutes! There are many ellipses...

B/ Regarding Taylor's mental state, I can only answer from the point of view of my profession. I will therefore rephrase the question: would Taylor's mental state have been considered sufficient to escape a criminal conviction?

In other words, is Taylor's will abolished or sufficiently impaired that he may not have been 'discerning' at the time?

From the elements of the episode we can't say that Taylor is acting like a nutcase (or 'crackpot'). Judge for yourself:

From start, he sets up a whole false scheme and story to convince TM to go investigate Chung's girlfriend. So yes, at 16:29 he holds a very good acting game with TM to make him hear that he is the still delusional boyfriend who wants to fight to get his love back, right. Until 34:00, one could think that Taylor is somehow psychotic and out of reality, but his embarrassed fleeing in front of his girlfriend when TM bursts into her house, removes all doubt: He talks about 'another important matter' and leaves... he knows full well that he set up this story to reach Chung, nothing else.
Taylor tells a new and totally different story to TC to get to Chung's private island. We can see that this is more the work of a manipulator (or perhaps also somewhat a pervert in a sense), but not of a person who has lost his mind in the sense of precise and voluntary direction of his actions ;
44:56 : Taylor comes out of his bush, gun drawn, shouting "this is an execution". He is certainly in a very strong emotional state at this point, but he is not acting like a mad man. Moreover, when he asks Chung to explain himself, Chung does NOT deny his version of the facts, but rather tries to play it down: "my subordinates maybe". Moreover, it is only at this moment that we realize that Taylor knows MUCH MORE about Chung's account (including his Swiss bank account...) than the episode can tell us.

Of course, a judge would ask for a psychiatric expertise before submitting the question to a jury, but the prosecution would have no problem demonstrating that Taylor's acts, all his acts, were logical, caused, directed, piloted with a precise goal and that by alluding to "an execution", he is perfectly conscious of the offence and of the criminal fraud he is committing: more than a murder, moreover, an assassination, whatever the reason and its justification.

From a legal point of view: it is highly likely that Taylor would be found fully responsible for his actions at this level. I don't think that what seems to me to be a deep state of manic depression is such as to take away the discernment of his actions.

Of course, there might have been mitigating circumstances to the criminal sentence, but the proven art of deception he used is also against him.

C/ On closer inspection, I didn't find that TM was suspicious of Taylor at first sight. It is only after talking with Higgins, behind his smoking gun :lol: , and getting information from Rick, that the pieces of the puzzle form in TM's mind (28:43). So it's not a distrust, but rather a suspicion, sorry ,Mark, so I revise my initial assessment! :magnum:
Excellent analysis, GM, excellent. If we look at the original dialog we can draw further support:
>Bin Loc.

1971.


I don't understand.

 I commanded a division which was
>Louder!
I commanded a division which was operating in the area. 

And running drugs.

 Some of my subordinates, perhaps.


>But you're the one with the Swiss bank account, General.


It was a long time ago.

 Some things were unavoidable.


:magnum: You're buying time.

You're gonna hit him the same way.
>

Don't come any closer.

Magnum!

The general does not deny the possibility that drug running existed within his ranks. And he says "some things were unavoidable," dovetailing with your account. I draw the line though with the Swiss bank remark because it is more likely Taylor meant it only figuratively.

However wonderful your analysis is, I don't believe it sufficiently overturns the view Taylor was "crazy." Surely not in the informal sense of crazy. Within American culture many references can be found how some Vietnam vets were viewed as crazy because they might for example suddenly jump into some bushes at the sound of a fire cracker or something loud. Of course they were not clinically crazy but that is the colloquialism to refer to extreme behavior though still possibly sane. This is why I ended my post with the query--
how did the TV audience in '81 view Taylor? Would they have used "crazy" or similar language about him?

Moreover, clinical insanity cannot be dismissed out of hand about Taylor. For instance randomly googling came up with the first hit, one from a nurse: "there [are] countless cases where people suffering from severe cases of [mental disorders] who live perfectly responsible lives." Because Taylor is so strategic or manipulative does not preclude him from being a prime candidate for psychiatric testing. Surely someone who murders another would be considered for testing. Ultimately it is not what we think but the original TV audience of '81. This relates to my broader question--Did MPI really do service by balancing out society's negative view of Vietnam vets or actually reinforce it?! Great job otherwise, GM. :magnum: :magnum:

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Gorilla Mask
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Re: The Last Page (2.20)

#54 Post by Gorilla Mask »

I'm glad you liked this analysis, thanks I do appreciate :D . I just want to clarify that my point was not to say whether Taylor was crazy or not from a medical point of view, I would not be competent on that issue, but only, from a legal point of view and in the place of the attorney, how I would have turned my demonstration to conclude that the murder was premeditated, that the violation of the law and the harm to the person (the murder) was identifiable in Taylor's mind and that the latter was discriminating while acting.

From the facts stressed by the scenario, i would plead that mental illness has not been decisive in abolishing his conscious will.

Again, on the face of it, from a legal standpoint, there is nothing to distinguish Taylor from a man whose insanity has not been demonstrated in his quest for revenge. It is not because a man commits an act that seems unreasonable (here, first degree, premeditated murder) that he is necessarily insane.

Besides, for me, the word "insane", by itself, means nothing in law.

As far as the Swiss bank account is concerned, I am only basing myself on Taylor's statements as if it were a fact, nothing more. It is obvious that in a proper criminal investigation, this point would have been verified.

Thank you for a rich and interesting debate. :magnum: :magnum:
"Je sais ce que vous allez me dire, et vous aurez raison..."

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Re: The Last Page (2.20)

#55 Post by MagnumsLeftShoulder »

I watched this one yesterday for the first time in a long time. I had forgotten how good it is! But I also want to know how Taylor Hurst knew about Linda and Celeste.......

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