Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

Yes, bring us your tired, your weak, and nazi war criminals! By any chance, are you wearing a brown shirt?

Yeah, you probably would! Any body who agrees with, or condones mad kudu buck's statement, should be ashamed of themselves!

What the...? So you think that anybody who agrees with following US and international law should be ashamed, but allowing foreigners to illegally kidnap, drug and possibly kill US citizens is perfectly fine? How interesting.

What's even more troubling is the implication that if you have differing opinions then you might be a Nazi yourself. If that isn't the very definition of Hitler/Stalin mentality then I don't know what is. Last time I checked we were a democracy and have the right to use our God-given ability to think and reason for ourselves without being bullied into thinking a certain way.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

I already wrote here in the past about what a great episode this is! Easy top 10 for the entire series!

But I want to point out how incredibly strong the first season is. To be even more specific, the first half of the 1st season! Even before we got the familiar Mike Post/Peter Carpenter main theme! The show literally found its groove from season 1, episode 1. The pilot episode to me is superb!! The next few episodes (in particular this one, "No Need to Know", and "Skin Deep") are some of my favorites not just of this season but of the entire series.

Let's look just at the first 10 episodes of this season. The only one real turkey there is "The Ugliest Dog in Hawaii". You could also make a case for "Thank Heaven for Little Girls" but I find it kinda cute ("she shouldn't be punished for her passion" ), plus it's a Christmas episode. In "Missing in Action" I'm not too crazy about the whole ESP thing but otherwise it's a solid episode which has a few good things going for it like: Mac's first appearance, a plot involving the Navy, the achingly gorgeous Rebecca Holden (who I had a major crush on during my younger KNIGHT RIDER watching days), and of course Lance LeGault is always a plus! So with the exception of "Ugliest Dog" and maybe "Little Girls" you have 8 out of 10 solid to great episodes, and 5 of those (counting the pilot as 2 episodes) I would place on my all-time-best MAGNUM list. If we compare this to the second half of the season (episodes 11-18) then there are actually only 2 that I really like - "Don't Say Goodbye" and "J. Digger Doyle". I guess "Black Orchid" is fine too. But this is where the Mike Post theme was introduced and where the episodic scores became more Magnum sounding so you would think this is where the show would really hit its groove, but no it was already firing on all cylinders with the pilot and the next few brilliant episodes. This rarely, if ever happens, with new shows. Consider the first season of SIMON & SIMON - it's reaaaaally difficult to watch. Very dull. The show started finding its groove during the second season (when it was moved to follow MAGNUM at 9pm) but its best season for me didn't come until the 3rd season. It's like that with a lot of shows. But MAGNUM nailed it right away. I even compared my top 5 MAGNUMs from season 1 with my top 5 from season 2 and, with the exception of "Memories are Forever", I found that my season 1 picks were stronger than my season 2 picks. Goes to show how strong that first season was, and especially those first few episodes!

For those who are interested in my season 1 and 2 top 5's:

season 1:
---------
1. Don't Eat the Snow in Hawaii
2. No Need to Know *
3. Never Again... Never Again *
4. Skin Deep
5. J. Digger Doyle (though Lest We Forget is very close)

* 2 and 3 are pretty much tied

season 2:
---------
1. Memories Are Forever (I'll admit that this one is stronger than anything from season 1)
2. The Jororo Kill
3. Try to Remember
4. The Last Page
5. Italian Ice

[thechickinthemiddle]

Clearly, if this thread is any indication, the inclusion of potential Mossad in this episode worked too well. It's there for realism, sure, but like the character of Brigadier Ffolkes, it carries a lot more implications nowadays than perhaps even the writers intended.

I almost forgot just how strong the climax of this episode was. Not only because the shots of Lena's bloodied hand carrying the scalpel are pretty gruesome (in visuals and implications) for 1981, but Hanna Landy's monologue really seals the deal, some slightly-disembodied dubbing aside.

On a lighter note, I've noticed that in more serious episodes like this one, funny moments like T.C. controlling Higgins' hospital bed often get forgotten. Case in point:

[T.Q.]

Excellent episode.

One of the best twists that completely throws you for a loop.

Always wondered about the dubbing over voice of Lena in her final scene and Higgins at the end. Something I’ve always thought was weird.

“Ahi sushi delivery, your wish for fish come true”.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

Clearly, if this thread is any indication, the inclusion of potential Mossad in this episode worked too well. It's there for realism, sure, but like the character of Brigadier Ffolkes, it carries a lot more implications nowadays than perhaps even the writers intended.

I almost forgot just how strong the climax of this episode was. Not only because the shots of Lena's bloodied hand carrying the scalpel are pretty gruesome (in visuals and implications) for 1981, but Hanna Landy's monologue really seals the deal, some slightly-disembodied dubbing aside.
On a lighter note, I've noticed that in more serious episodes like this one, funny moments like T.C. controlling Higgins' hospital bed often get forgotten. Case in point:

Hi Chick,
Regarding the 'dubbing' and the ending, I would refer you back to JJ's comment in this thread:
"Does anyone happen to recall whether or not there was a gunshot at the end of this episode (immediately after the climactic confrontation b/t Magnum and Lena, during the last shot of the boat on the water) in the original broadcast? If not, what a strange way to end the scene! The scene builds up all this tension, Lena still hasn't dropped the scalpel, and you just cut to the boat ... then nothing?"
And my response in 2015:"For what its worth, every time I have seen this episode in reruns, I wonder "didn't Magnum shoot her" back when I first viewed it on CBS."
I was a Magnum fan from the git go, and I would swear Magnum shot Lena at the end, as I was shocked a hero would be allowed to do that. CBS might have gotten blow back from S & P, and changed the ending when it was later rerun. But this episode made as strong an impression on me as did when Magnum later dispatched Ivan, and I would swear Magnum did shoot her off screen, though I allow anyone could be wrong but I am not. Hopefully Selleck will address this in his up coming book.
Perhaps the newspapers TV critics made comment on this episode at the time, though as it was a new series it might have got lost in the shuffle.
Magnum shooting Lena is logical and makes this episode a much better commentary on the horrors of mass murder and how decent people are compelled to end such horrors.

[K Hale]

She was about to come at him with a knife. Why wouldn’t he shoot? It’s less morally ambiguous than shooting Ivan and they had no problem showing that.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

She was about to come at him with a knife. Why wouldn’t he shoot? It’s less morally ambiguous than shooting Ivan and they had no problem showing that.

Hi K Hale,
I agree with you to a point. Magnum blowing away a lethal threat to himself, little old lady or not, is certainly within the nature of the man we come to know over the series.
But strapping Magnum blowing away a little old lady, even one coming at him with a scalpel, that was off the chart in the early 80's, any other PI show would have had him somehow disarm her. So they changed the audio, no more gunshot, even though him killing her, as you said, makes sense.
The audio alteration was a cheat to the viewers and the writers.

-----------------------------------------------------
Ed Byrne, comedian:
Why do women insist on asking men what they're thinking? We're thinking: "Better think of something to say, better think of something to say."
Either that or we're imagining that we're spies.

[Mad Kudu Buck]

But strapping Magnum blowing away a little old lady, even one coming at him with a scalpel, that was off the chart in the early 80's, any other PI show would have had him somehow disarm her.

Yes, I certainly wouldn't have respected Magnum if he blew away an old lady with a puny knife. He should be strong enough and quick enough to grab her arm if she lunged at him with the knife.

I remember watching a police show from the 70's where a young man threatened a policeman with a large knife - and the policeman just calmly talked him out of it. Then he had a nice friendly chat with him and let him go on his way. Oh how times have changed. These days they shoot to kill if somebody pulls out a phone. (then they handcuff the dead body to be sure)

Now that I think of it... what did the old lady actually do? She killed armed men who had kidnapped her husband. Magnum himself has killed kidnappers.

"But... she was a war criminal!!1" Well, then let the foreign agents notify the US government and let American agents legally arrest her and hold her for trial. Until then, she has a right to defend herself and her husband.

[thechickinthemiddle]

Clearly, if this thread is any indication, the inclusion of potential Mossad in this episode worked too well. It's there for realism, sure, but like the character of Brigadier Ffolkes, it carries a lot more implications nowadays than perhaps even the writers intended.

I almost forgot just how strong the climax of this episode was. Not only because the shots of Lena's bloodied hand carrying the scalpel are pretty gruesome (in visuals and implications) for 1981, but Hanna Landy's monologue really seals the deal, some slightly-disembodied dubbing aside.
On a lighter note, I've noticed that in more serious episodes like this one, funny moments like T.C. controlling Higgins' hospital bed often get forgotten. Case in point:

Hi Chick,
Regarding the 'dubbing' and the ending, I would refer you back to JJ's comment in this thread:
"Does anyone happen to recall whether or not there was a gunshot at the end of this episode (immediately after the climactic confrontation b/t Magnum and Lena, during the last shot of the boat on the water) in the original broadcast? If not, what a strange way to end the scene! The scene builds up all this tension, Lena still hasn't dropped the scalpel, and you just cut to the boat ... then nothing?"
And my response in 2015:"For what its worth, every time I have seen this episode in reruns, I wonder "didn't Magnum shoot her" back when I first viewed it on CBS."
I was a Magnum fan from the git go, and I would swear Magnum shot Lena at the end, as I was shocked a hero would be allowed to do that. CBS might have gotten blow back from S & P, and changed the ending when it was later rerun. But this episode made as strong an impression on me as did when Magnum later dispatched Ivan, and I would swear Magnum did shoot her off screen, though I allow anyone could be wrong but I am not. Hopefully Selleck will address this in his up coming book.
Perhaps the newspapers TV critics made comment on this episode at the time, though as it was a new series it might have got lost in the shuffle.
Magnum shooting Lena is logical and makes this episode a much better commentary on the horrors of mass murder and how decent people are compelled to end such horrors.

Hi Dobie, thanks for your reply.

The dubbing I meant was the noticeable amount heard with Lena in her monologue (probably for clarity, since ADR seems pretty common on Magnum when the scene takes place near the water). I looked around online just now pertaining to the gunshot, and this forum link from 2015 said that the UK DVDs retained the gunshot, though this is certainly news to me. The print used for the Blu-ray set still has it removed, though.

Now that you mention Standards and Practices, I wonder if "Missing in Action"'s climax is as awkward as it is due to some behind-the-scenes, story, or network disagreement, like something was cut between the script and filming (or even after).

[K Hale]

But strapping Magnum blowing away a little old lady, even one coming at him with a scalpel, that was off the chart in the early 80's, any other PI show would have had him somehow disarm her.

Yes, I certainly wouldn't have respected Magnum if he blew away an old lady with a puny knife. He should be strong enough and quick enough to grab her arm if she lunged at him with the knife.

I remember watching a police show from the 70's where a young man threatened a policeman with a large knife - and the policeman just calmly talked him out of it. Then he had a nice friendly chat with him and let him go on his way. Oh how times have changed. These days they shoot to kill if somebody pulls out a phone. (then they handcuff the dead body to be sure)

Now that I think of it... what did the old lady actually do? She killed armed men who had kidnapped her husband. Magnum himself has killed kidnappers.

"But... she was a war criminal!!1" Well, then let the foreign agents notify the US government and let American agents legally arrest her and hold her for trial. Until then, she has a right to defend herself and her husband.

Don't underestimate her just because she's female and older. She had just taken out two armed Mossad agents. She might have made short work of Magnum too if he hadn't been armed. It was self defense and he was 100% justified, he'd even have gotten off in a court of law (not that Magnum ever sees the inside of a court after shooting someone!).

Compare this to the killing of Ivan, which was straight up murder/execution of an unarmed man regardless of whether we feel Ivan deserved it. He too was a war criminal.

[Mad Kudu Buck]

The difference is that she surprised the Mossad agents and got them from behind. She was facing Magnum and some distance away. I'm sure a tough guy like Magnum could handle it.

I'd blow away Ivan too... but Ivan wasn't a little old lady. (not yet, anyway)

[K Hale]

I dunno, man. I doubt this was her first rodeo. I think Magnum did the right thing.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

thechickinthemiddle wrote:
"Hi Dobie, thanks for your reply.
The dubbing I meant was the noticeable amount heard with Lena in her monologue (probably for clarity, since ADR seems pretty common on Magnum when the scene takes place near the water). I looked around online just now pertaining to the gunshot, and this forum link from 2015 said that the UK DVDs retained the gunshot, though this is certainly news to me. The print used for the Blu-ray set still has it removed, though.
Now that you mention Standards and Practices, I wonder if "Missing in Action"'s climax is as awkward as it is due to some behind-the-scenes, story, or network disagreement,
like something was cut between the script and filming (or even after)."

Hi Chick,
I will gladly give you my first born for solving The Case of the Missing Gunshot! Peter Gunn, Mannix and Luther Gillis couldn't have done better than the
job you did on this caper, shamus. Mini Magnum should add you to the firm when Juliet Higgins and he start their joint PI gig next season.
If you do can you get me Juliete's phone number, hubba hubba.
As for your comment on S & P, editing and "Missing in Action", that jogged my memory. I recall a actor also saying CBS, far more than other networks
was liable to interfere with the creative content of their TV series because, as was noted here before, their audience skewered older, middle of the country, family than
other networks.
You might recall the infamous and disastrous decision to kill off all their 'country series' including Green Acres, Beverly Hillbillies, Petticoat Junction etc in
one fell swoop. To this day that is still pointed at as how to lose money, ratings, your audience base, and your job in one go.
Things do get by the CBS censors, one of the Magnum Maniacs here pointed out that Mad Buck Gibson's wife was wearing a necklace that spelled out 'Bitch'.

------------------------------------------------------------------
""Why do I always have to be the fulcrum?"
Ray the Cop (Due South)

[thechickinthemiddle]

Hi Chick,
I will gladly give you my first born for solving The Case of the Missing Gunshot! Peter Gunn, Mannix and Luther Gillis couldn't have done better than the
job you did on this caper, shamus. Mini Magnum should add you to the firm when Juliet Higgins and he start their joint PI gig next season.
If you do can you get me Juliete's phone number, hubba hubba.
As for your comment on S & P, editing and "Missing in Action", that jogged my memory. I recall a actor also saying CBS, far more than other networks
was liable to interfere with the creative content of their TV series because, as was noted here before, their audience skewered older, middle of the country, family than
other networks.
You might recall the infamous and disastrous decision to kill off all their 'country series' including Green Acres, Beverly Hillbillies, Petticoat Junction etc in
one fell swoop. To this day that is still pointed at as how to lose money, ratings, your audience base, and your job in one go.
Things do get by the CBS censors, one of the Magnum Maniacs here pointed out that Mad Buck Gibson's wife was wearing a necklace that spelled out 'Bitch'.

Thanks, Dobie.
The poster from the link didn't say much else, but I wonder if the gunshot suffered the same fate on later UK DVDs as the crossover episodes on later US DVDs, i.e. a different print might have been used, etc.. This link here speculates the removal might have been on the part of the original syndicators, who were known to make edits like that at the time, but that, the previous forum link, and this board are the only things I could find about it. I'd love to see if anyone with the UK DVDs can confirm for the rest of us here.

I also like to think the 'b*tch* necklace was Vera Miles' idea to begin with.

As for "Missing in Action", I can only wonder what the heck was originally planned for the plot regarding Eric's fate. I don't think the story would cut things off like that, seeing as he was the focus for the entire episode. If only Magnum season one had the same press coverage as Donner's Superman movies, then we would have more to go on.

[brianw]

Good ep. Just watched it on Cozi tv this morning. They cut out Magnum shooting Lena. I hate that and not sure why they did this. It takes away a lot from the conclusion. Its a big reason TM was so distraught on tbe beach talking to Higgins.