Harry-O on Decades

[Chris109]

So back to the Harry-O binge... in addition to "Mortal Sin" which I had seen earlier I also saw "Gertrude", "The Admiral's Lady", "Guardian at the Gates", and "Coinage of the Realm". I enjoyed all of them but especially "Mortal Sin" and "The Admiral's Lady". After that I saw bits and pieces here and there, including the one with Larry Hagman as the race car driver and the one with John Colicos which had a weird black & white flashback montage. Those were with Anthony Zerbe, who replaced Henry Darrow as the police lieutenant. I'll say that I really didn't care for the theme song change, neither the one later in season 1 nor the one in season 2, with a bunch of Harry-O's splashed across the screen (like on Mary Tyler Moore Show). The first theme during the first half of season 1 was the best. Simple but effective and easy to hum -- in fact it's been stuck in my head this whole weekend. Well done by Billy Goldenberg! It's not one of the great TV theme songs but it sure is catchy and captures the weary world of Harry Orwell very well. Kind of melancholy, punctuated by moments of excitement.

David Janssen has really grown on me as Orwell. Very good character. Love his voice-overs. They're certainly more frequent than Magnum's. I love it! His world-weariness is kind of infectious. Makes me want to sleep in late and then fish on the beach and fiddle around with an old boat. The cases themselves are all very interesting and the writing is excellent! In some way it's actually a better show than ROCKFORD. Or at least it walks that fine line between a show like ROCKFORD and something more serious like HAWAII FIVE-O or STREETS OF SAN FRAN. Which I guess makes sense since Harry is a former cop. So in some ways it plays out more like a cop show than ROCKFORD does (which is a true quirky PI show). It's a nice balancing act that I like. Already I saw 2 episodes involving troubled serial killer types - something you're more likely to see on FIVE-O than on ROCKFORD.

Question - Henry Darrow or Anthony Zerbe? Who do you prefer? I know Zerbe won an Emmy and I know that most prefer the earlier episodes with Darrow, but as characters -- which one do you prefer? Personally I need to see more episodes with Zerbe but he appears to be more animated (and more involved in the cases) than Darrow. But I always liked Darrow as an actor. So it would be a tough call.

I prefer the original theme song and opening montage too. I think the producers kept changing it as the premise of Harry’s world-weary, contemplative detective with a bullet in his back was slowly abandoned. They eventually made the show more action oriented and much more like traditional PI series, a negative in my view.

I suppose I prefer Manny over Trench because I prefer those early episodes over late ones, but Harry and Trench eventually develop an entertaining rapport that I’ve seen so much more of as he was in many more episodes. His exasperation with Harry is fun to watch, but they do develop an actual friendship.

You do get the sense that Manny and Harry are better friends as well as former coworkers by the way they tease each other. One of my favorite scenes is when they have breakfast together and Manny orders for them in Spanish to the waitress. Before he leaves, Manny says something else to her and she looks alarmed. Harry asks her what Manny said and it was something about being careful because Harry is a dangerous person. Manny also messes a bit with his other colleagues especially Tom Atkins’ character, and of course Harry does so with Manuel, as he often calls him.

It's interesting that Manuel "Manny" Quinlan has a very American last name. Should have been Manny Montoya, a nod to his HIGH CHAPARRAL character.

Or as Buck Cannon would occasionally pronounce Manolito (mon-o-lito) as 'Man-o-lito".

[Pahonu]

So back to the Harry-O binge... in addition to "Mortal Sin" which I had seen earlier I also saw "Gertrude", "The Admiral's Lady", "Guardian at the Gates", and "Coinage of the Realm". I enjoyed all of them but especially "Mortal Sin" and "The Admiral's Lady". After that I saw bits and pieces here and there, including the one with Larry Hagman as the race car driver and the one with John Colicos which had a weird black & white flashback montage. Those were with Anthony Zerbe, who replaced Henry Darrow as the police lieutenant. I'll say that I really didn't care for the theme song change, neither the one later in season 1 nor the one in season 2, with a bunch of Harry-O's splashed across the screen (like on Mary Tyler Moore Show). The first theme during the first half of season 1 was the best. Simple but effective and easy to hum -- in fact it's been stuck in my head this whole weekend. Well done by Billy Goldenberg! It's not one of the great TV theme songs but it sure is catchy and captures the weary world of Harry Orwell very well. Kind of melancholy, punctuated by moments of excitement.

David Janssen has really grown on me as Orwell. Very good character. Love his voice-overs. They're certainly more frequent than Magnum's. I love it! His world-weariness is kind of infectious. Makes me want to sleep in late and then fish on the beach and fiddle around with an old boat. The cases themselves are all very interesting and the writing is excellent! In some way it's actually a better show than ROCKFORD. Or at least it walks that fine line between a show like ROCKFORD and something more serious like HAWAII FIVE-O or STREETS OF SAN FRAN. Which I guess makes sense since Harry is a former cop. So in some ways it plays out more like a cop show than ROCKFORD does (which is a true quirky PI show). It's a nice balancing act that I like. Already I saw 2 episodes involving troubled serial killer types - something you're more likely to see on FIVE-O than on ROCKFORD.

Question - Henry Darrow or Anthony Zerbe? Who do you prefer? I know Zerbe won an Emmy and I know that most prefer the earlier episodes with Darrow, but as characters -- which one do you prefer? Personally I need to see more episodes with Zerbe but he appears to be more animated (and more involved in the cases) than Darrow. But I always liked Darrow as an actor. So it would be a tough call.

I prefer the original theme song and opening montage too. I think the producers kept changing it as the premise of Harry’s world-weary, contemplative detective with a bullet in his back was slowly abandoned. They eventually made the show more action oriented and much more like traditional PI series, a negative in my view.

I suppose I prefer Manny over Trench because I prefer those early episodes over late ones, but Harry and Trench eventually develop an entertaining rapport that I’ve seen so much more of as he was in many more episodes. His exasperation with Harry is fun to watch, but they do develop an actual friendship.

You do get the sense that Manny and Harry are better friends as well as former coworkers by the way they tease each other. One of my favorite scenes is when they have breakfast together and Manny orders for them in Spanish to the waitress. Before he leaves, Manny says something else to her and she looks alarmed. Harry asks her what Manny said and it was something about being careful because Harry is a dangerous person. Manny also messes a bit with his other colleagues especially Tom Atkins’ character, and of course Harry does so with Manuel, as he often calls him.

It's interesting that Manuel "Manny" Quinlan has a very American last name. Should have been Manny Montoya, a nod to his HIGH CHAPARRAL character.

Perhaps it’s like Henry Darrow, born Enrique Delgado-Jimenez, or Martin and Charlie Sheen, born Ramon and Carlos Estevez? It opened up a lot more opportunities in the past to change their names, and if it allowed them to play both Latino characters and characters not explicitly so. Manny Quinlan isn’t depicted as obviously Latino by any of his behaviors or comments in early episodes. You and I know him to be Latino but there really isn’t anything else to indicate he is. He only speaks Spanish after about a dozen episodes, though Harry calls him Manuel maybe 7-8 episodes in. That might be the first actual dialogue about his heritage. His background is only fully described In Elegy for a Cop, which comes after the move to LA for Harry and closer to the end of season 1.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

So back to the Harry-O binge... in addition to "Mortal Sin" which I had seen earlier I also saw "Gertrude", "The Admiral's Lady", "Guardian at the Gates", and "Coinage of the Realm". I enjoyed all of them but especially "Mortal Sin" and "The Admiral's Lady". After that I saw bits and pieces here and there, including the one with Larry Hagman as the race car driver and the one with John Colicos which had a weird black & white flashback montage. Those were with Anthony Zerbe, who replaced Henry Darrow as the police lieutenant. I'll say that I really didn't care for the theme song change, neither the one later in season 1 nor the one in season 2, with a bunch of Harry-O's splashed across the screen (like on Mary Tyler Moore Show). The first theme during the first half of season 1 was the best. Simple but effective and easy to hum -- in fact it's been stuck in my head this whole weekend. Well done by Billy Goldenberg! It's not one of the great TV theme songs but it sure is catchy and captures the weary world of Harry Orwell very well. Kind of melancholy, punctuated by moments of excitement.

David Janssen has really grown on me as Orwell. Very good character. Love his voice-overs. They're certainly more frequent than Magnum's. I love it! His world-weariness is kind of infectious. Makes me want to sleep in late and then fish on the beach and fiddle around with an old boat. The cases themselves are all very interesting and the writing is excellent! In some way it's actually a better show than ROCKFORD. Or at least it walks that fine line between a show like ROCKFORD and something more serious like HAWAII FIVE-O or STREETS OF SAN FRAN. Which I guess makes sense since Harry is a former cop. So in some ways it plays out more like a cop show than ROCKFORD does (which is a true quirky PI show). It's a nice balancing act that I like. Already I saw 2 episodes involving troubled serial killer types - something you're more likely to see on FIVE-O than on ROCKFORD.

Question - Henry Darrow or Anthony Zerbe? Who do you prefer? I know Zerbe won an Emmy and I know that most prefer the earlier episodes with Darrow, but as characters -- which one do you prefer? Personally I need to see more episodes with Zerbe but he appears to be more animated (and more involved in the cases) than Darrow. But I always liked Darrow as an actor. So it would be a tough call.

I prefer the original theme song and opening montage too. I think the producers kept changing it as the premise of Harry’s world-weary, contemplative detective with a bullet in his back was slowly abandoned. They eventually made the show more action oriented and much more like traditional PI series, a negative in my view.

I suppose I prefer Manny over Trench because I prefer those early episodes over late ones, but Harry and Trench eventually develop an entertaining rapport that I’ve seen so much more of as he was in many more episodes. His exasperation with Harry is fun to watch, but they do develop an actual friendship.

You do get the sense that Manny and Harry are better friends as well as former coworkers by the way they tease each other. One of my favorite scenes is when they have breakfast together and Manny orders for them in Spanish to the waitress. Before he leaves, Manny says something else to her and she looks alarmed. Harry asks her what Manny said and it was something about being careful because Harry is a dangerous person. Manny also messes a bit with his other colleagues especially Tom Atkins’ character, and of course Harry does so with Manuel, as he often calls him.

It's interesting that Manuel "Manny" Quinlan has a very American last name. Should have been Manny Montoya, a nod to his HIGH CHAPARRAL character.

Perhaps it’s like Henry Darrow, born Enrique Delgado-Jimenez, or Martin and Charlie Sheen, born Ramon and Carlos Estevez? It opened up a lot more opportunities in the past to change their names, and if it allowed them to play both Latino characters and characters not explicitly so. Manny Quinlan isn’t depicted as obviously Latino by any of his behaviors or comments in early episodes. You and I know him to be Latino but there really isn’t anything else to indicate he is. He only speaks Spanish after about a dozen episodes, though Harry calls him Manuel maybe 7-8 episodes in. That might be the first actual dialogue about his heritage. His background is only fully described In Elegy for a Cop, which comes after the move to LA for Harry and closer to the end of season 1.

I believe it was the second episode "The Admiral's Lady" where I picked up that he's supposed to be Latino by the way he pronounces one of the apartment buildings which has a Spanish name. He pronounced it in fluent Spanish, with no trace of an American accent.

[Pahonu]

So back to the Harry-O binge... in addition to "Mortal Sin" which I had seen earlier I also saw "Gertrude", "The Admiral's Lady", "Guardian at the Gates", and "Coinage of the Realm". I enjoyed all of them but especially "Mortal Sin" and "The Admiral's Lady". After that I saw bits and pieces here and there, including the one with Larry Hagman as the race car driver and the one with John Colicos which had a weird black & white flashback montage. Those were with Anthony Zerbe, who replaced Henry Darrow as the police lieutenant. I'll say that I really didn't care for the theme song change, neither the one later in season 1 nor the one in season 2, with a bunch of Harry-O's splashed across the screen (like on Mary Tyler Moore Show). The first theme during the first half of season 1 was the best. Simple but effective and easy to hum -- in fact it's been stuck in my head this whole weekend. Well done by Billy Goldenberg! It's not one of the great TV theme songs but it sure is catchy and captures the weary world of Harry Orwell very well. Kind of melancholy, punctuated by moments of excitement.

David Janssen has really grown on me as Orwell. Very good character. Love his voice-overs. They're certainly more frequent than Magnum's. I love it! His world-weariness is kind of infectious. Makes me want to sleep in late and then fish on the beach and fiddle around with an old boat. The cases themselves are all very interesting and the writing is excellent! In some way it's actually a better show than ROCKFORD. Or at least it walks that fine line between a show like ROCKFORD and something more serious like HAWAII FIVE-O or STREETS OF SAN FRAN. Which I guess makes sense since Harry is a former cop. So in some ways it plays out more like a cop show than ROCKFORD does (which is a true quirky PI show). It's a nice balancing act that I like. Already I saw 2 episodes involving troubled serial killer types - something you're more likely to see on FIVE-O than on ROCKFORD.

Question - Henry Darrow or Anthony Zerbe? Who do you prefer? I know Zerbe won an Emmy and I know that most prefer the earlier episodes with Darrow, but as characters -- which one do you prefer? Personally I need to see more episodes with Zerbe but he appears to be more animated (and more involved in the cases) than Darrow. But I always liked Darrow as an actor. So it would be a tough call.

I prefer the original theme song and opening montage too. I think the producers kept changing it as the premise of Harry’s world-weary, contemplative detective with a bullet in his back was slowly abandoned. They eventually made the show more action oriented and much more like traditional PI series, a negative in my view.

I suppose I prefer Manny over Trench because I prefer those early episodes over late ones, but Harry and Trench eventually develop an entertaining rapport that I’ve seen so much more of as he was in many more episodes. His exasperation with Harry is fun to watch, but they do develop an actual friendship.

You do get the sense that Manny and Harry are better friends as well as former coworkers by the way they tease each other. One of my favorite scenes is when they have breakfast together and Manny orders for them in Spanish to the waitress. Before he leaves, Manny says something else to her and she looks alarmed. Harry asks her what Manny said and it was something about being careful because Harry is a dangerous person. Manny also messes a bit with his other colleagues especially Tom Atkins’ character, and of course Harry does so with Manuel, as he often calls him.

It's interesting that Manuel "Manny" Quinlan has a very American last name. Should have been Manny Montoya, a nod to his HIGH CHAPARRAL character.

Perhaps it’s like Henry Darrow, born Enrique Delgado-Jimenez, or Martin and Charlie Sheen, born Ramon and Carlos Estevez? It opened up a lot more opportunities in the past to change their names, and if it allowed them to play both Latino characters and characters not explicitly so. Manny Quinlan isn’t depicted as obviously Latino by any of his behaviors or comments in early episodes. You and I know him to be Latino but there really isn’t anything else to indicate he is. He only speaks Spanish after about a dozen episodes, though Harry calls him Manuel maybe 7-8 episodes in. That might be the first actual dialogue about his heritage. His background is only fully described In Elegy for a Cop, which comes after the move to LA for Harry and closer to the end of season 1.

I believe it was the second episode "The Admiral's Lady" where I picked up that he's supposed to be Latino by the way he pronounces one of the apartment buildings which has a Spanish name. He pronounced it in fluent Spanish, with no trace of an American accent.

I don’t disagree but having watched the series through multiple times, I don’t think it was emphasized very highly that he was latino in the early episodes. That’s not the same as saying he wasn’t at all depicted as being so. I don’t want to give away too much about the episode Elegy for a Cop if you haven’t seen it, but it has more reference to his latino heritage than all the previous episodes combined. It was the second to last episode of season one and many episodes after the move to LA when Henry Darrow had been written out of the show for several episodes already.

When you see it, let me know what you think because it is both a great episode on its own, but also strange if you have seen the first pilot episode which many viewers of the era may likely not have seen.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

I prefer the original theme song and opening montage too. I think the producers kept changing it as the premise of Harry’s world-weary, contemplative detective with a bullet in his back was slowly abandoned. They eventually made the show more action oriented and much more like traditional PI series, a negative in my view.

I suppose I prefer Manny over Trench because I prefer those early episodes over late ones, but Harry and Trench eventually develop an entertaining rapport that I’ve seen so much more of as he was in many more episodes. His exasperation with Harry is fun to watch, but they do develop an actual friendship.

You do get the sense that Manny and Harry are better friends as well as former coworkers by the way they tease each other. One of my favorite scenes is when they have breakfast together and Manny orders for them in Spanish to the waitress. Before he leaves, Manny says something else to her and she looks alarmed. Harry asks her what Manny said and it was something about being careful because Harry is a dangerous person. Manny also messes a bit with his other colleagues especially Tom Atkins’ character, and of course Harry does so with Manuel, as he often calls him.

It's interesting that Manuel "Manny" Quinlan has a very American last name. Should have been Manny Montoya, a nod to his HIGH CHAPARRAL character.

Perhaps it’s like Henry Darrow, born Enrique Delgado-Jimenez, or Martin and Charlie Sheen, born Ramon and Carlos Estevez? It opened up a lot more opportunities in the past to change their names, and if it allowed them to play both Latino characters and characters not explicitly so. Manny Quinlan isn’t depicted as obviously Latino by any of his behaviors or comments in early episodes. You and I know him to be Latino but there really isn’t anything else to indicate he is. He only speaks Spanish after about a dozen episodes, though Harry calls him Manuel maybe 7-8 episodes in. That might be the first actual dialogue about his heritage. His background is only fully described In Elegy for a Cop, which comes after the move to LA for Harry and closer to the end of season 1.

I believe it was the second episode "The Admiral's Lady" where I picked up that he's supposed to be Latino by the way he pronounces one of the apartment buildings which has a Spanish name. He pronounced it in fluent Spanish, with no trace of an American accent.

I don’t disagree but having watched the series through multiple times, I don’t think it was emphasized very highly that he was latino in the early episodes. That’s not the same as saying he wasn’t at all depicted as being so. I don’t want to give away too much about the episode Elegy for a Cop if you haven’t seen it, but it has more reference to his latino heritage than all the previous episodes combined. It was the second to last episode of season one and many episodes after the move to LA when Henry Darrow had been written out of the show for several episodes already.

When you see it, let me know what you think because it is both a great episode on its own, but also strange if you have seen the first pilot episode which many viewers of the era may likely not have seen.

I think it's also a case where Henry Darrow (who is Hispanic himself) tends to play Hispanic characters a lot, barring a few here and there. So in my mind I think most of the time when I see his name I expect him to play a Hispanic character. And so then when Orwell refers to him as Manuel or I hear him pronounce something with a Hispanic accent I go "oh ok, so he's supposed to be Hispanic here".

Looking forward to checking out the 2 pilots sometime soon!

[Pahonu]

It's interesting that Manuel "Manny" Quinlan has a very American last name. Should have been Manny Montoya, a nod to his HIGH CHAPARRAL character.

Perhaps it’s like Henry Darrow, born Enrique Delgado-Jimenez, or Martin and Charlie Sheen, born Ramon and Carlos Estevez? It opened up a lot more opportunities in the past to change their names, and if it allowed them to play both Latino characters and characters not explicitly so. Manny Quinlan isn’t depicted as obviously Latino by any of his behaviors or comments in early episodes. You and I know him to be Latino but there really isn’t anything else to indicate he is. He only speaks Spanish after about a dozen episodes, though Harry calls him Manuel maybe 7-8 episodes in. That might be the first actual dialogue about his heritage. His background is only fully described In Elegy for a Cop, which comes after the move to LA for Harry and closer to the end of season 1.

I believe it was the second episode "The Admiral's Lady" where I picked up that he's supposed to be Latino by the way he pronounces one of the apartment buildings which has a Spanish name. He pronounced it in fluent Spanish, with no trace of an American accent.

I don’t disagree but having watched the series through multiple times, I don’t think it was emphasized very highly that he was latino in the early episodes. That’s not the same as saying he wasn’t at all depicted as being so. I don’t want to give away too much about the episode Elegy for a Cop if you haven’t seen it, but it has more reference to his latino heritage than all the previous episodes combined. It was the second to last episode of season one and many episodes after the move to LA when Henry Darrow had been written out of the show for several episodes already.

When you see it, let me know what you think because it is both a great episode on its own, but also strange if you have seen the first pilot episode which many viewers of the era may likely not have seen.

I think it's also a case where Henry Darrow (who is Hispanic himself) tends to play Hispanic characters a lot, barring a few here and there. So in my mind I think most of the time when I see his name I expect him to play a Hispanic character. And so then when Orwell refers to him as Manuel or I hear him pronounce something with a Hispanic accent I go "oh ok, so he's supposed to be Hispanic here".

Looking forward to checking out the 2 pilots sometime soon!

I get that.

I’m looking forward to your thoughts on the two pilots. I love the moody, somber quality of the first but it lacks the voiceovers I enjoy in the series. The second is good as well, especially the subplot with Jodie Foster, but it’s more plot driven than character driven. I suspect you might enjoy the second more for that reason, but I’m interested to hear your take.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

This thread seems to be the go to place to post about Harry O on Magnum Mania as opposed to the "anyone remember Harry-O ?"
So I am "recycling" my post from the latter to here, as you guys might find it of interest. Or maybe not:


For all of you limited to watching only the first season of Harry O on You Tube like most, good news!

As of Monday August 29 Harry O is moving his detective operations to MeTV Plus(channel 245 on Comcast) at 7 pm weeknights.
Little Garwood has been lauding this series for years, this past weekend on Decades was my first chance to watch more than a handful
of episodes and it is great!
It has a 1940's vibe to it in my opinion. Especially Harry's amusing relationship with Anthony Zerbe's Lt. Trench for which Zerbe won an Emmy.
Not unlike William Powell's various movie PIs interactions with flustered coppers like Nat Pendleton or Donald McBride.
Only Zerbe can go toe to toe with David Janssen in the repartee department.
I recorded all the 2nd season and have knocked off 12, I forgot to record season one on Decades, I am only bringing this up
because I think the 2nd season's theme song version is awful! The pits. PU. For a series that gets so much right it is surprising.
I am really liking all the guest stars, especially the always beguiling Joanna Petite whose appearance on Banacek is seared
in to my conscious. Farrah Fawcett as Harry's girlfriend ain't exactly chopped liver either.

How is this for stylish writing:
In "Elegy For a Cop", a mourning Harry hits his local watering hole and buys a bottle in honor of his late pal Manny Quinlan(Henry Darrow).
Harry tells the bartender:

"Every once in a while somebody will come in here and you'll see that you like 'em right away, 'cause they're decent and just good people.
So give 'em a drink out of this bottle. Doesn't matter whether they have money or not. Tell 'em the drink's on Manny Quinlan.
Maybe they'll remember him. And if you feel like it, tell them he was a friend of mine."

Bartender: "What'll I do when the bottle's empty?"
Harry: "Nothing. Nobody lives forever."

That is lyrical, you won't find writing like that on Law & Order, no where, no way, no how.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

So I got around to seeing the first pilot - "Such Dust as Dreams Are Made On". Honestly I wasn't too impressed. The whole drug angle didn't appeal to me. There was a weird and long scene with Grandpa Walton (Will Geer) in a drug lab showing us how to make drugs. Was this a precursor to Breaking Bad? LOL. Martin Sheen as the man who shot Orwell earlier and lodged that bullet into his spine now trying to hire Orwell (after having turned his life around) was a nice premise and I liked that part. One thing that wasn't clear on the crappy version that I watched on YouTube (which had a lot of sudden cuts for whatever reason) was Sheen's fate. Was he killed by Sal Mineo? Mineo shot at both Orwell and Sheen. Obviously Orwell survived but Sheen was no longer seen after this. Was he killed? I'm assuming he was.

Another negative was that there were no voice-overs. Which Pahonu mentioned. Takes a lot away from the show. I also just didn't get his whole relationship with Margot Kidder. Some random woman he picks up at the bar (barely saying 2 words to her and she saying zero words to him) and then they just start living together? Weird, to say the least. Even though he already has a steady girlfriend (and cleaning lady? lol) played by another hottie Marianna Hill who regularly visits his pad and can't seem to keep her hands off him. This is actually something that bothers me. They treat Orwell like he's some chick magnet. Like he's James Bond. When he's just an unkempt sour puss with zero sex appeal or manners. Especially in this pilot episode. There's also some young library chick earlier in the episode who is making googly eyes at him and wants him to pick her up. I think she's 19. Luckily he tells her she's too young for him. Totally unbelievable! Don't even get me started on him and Linda Evans (super gorgeous!!!) in the "Guardian at the Gates" episode. But at least they softened Harry up a bit by then. Here in this pilot he's really unlikable. I can see why they ordered another pilot. I would have a hard time rooting for this guy. Rude, inconsiderate, entitled, mean-spirited. Just an all around sour-puss. With none of that inner dialogue to explain any of this. I'm glad they changed this when the series got picked up.

Also what was with that tacked-on motorcycle chase at the end? Really didn't fit and just dragged on for way too long. I was looking at the time, waiting for it to end. It also didn't seem to be shot particularly well (or edited) - the sense of geography was unclear most of the time. Judging by how long it was going I was expecting that it was building up to some huge fireball of an explosion but... nope... it just ended with Sal Mineo sliding off it.

Here's hoping that pilot #2 is much better.

[Pahonu]

So I got around to seeing the first pilot - "Such Dust as Dreams Are Made On". Honestly I wasn't too impressed. The whole drug angle didn't appeal to me. There was a weird and long scene with Grandpa Walton (Will Geer) in a drug lab showing us how to make drugs. Was this a precursor to Breaking Bad? LOL. Martin Sheen as the man who shot Orwell earlier and lodged that bullet into his spine now trying to hire Orwell (after having turned his life around) was a nice premise and I liked that part. One thing that wasn't clear on the crappy version that I watched on YouTube (which had a lot of sudden cuts for whatever reason) was Sheen's fate. Was he killed by Sal Mineo? Mineo shot at both Orwell and Sheen. Obviously Orwell survived but Sheen was no longer seen after this. Was he killed? I'm assuming he was.

Another negative was that there were no voice-overs. Which Pahonu mentioned. Takes a lot away from the show. I also just didn't get his whole relationship with Margot Kidder. Some random woman he picks up at the bar (barely saying 2 words to her and she saying zero words to him) and then they just start living together? Weird, to say the least. Even though he already has a steady girlfriend (and cleaning lady? lol) played by another hottie Marianna Hill who regularly visits his pad and can't seem to keep her hands off him. This is actually something that bothers me. They treat Orwell like he's some chick magnet. Like he's James Bond. When he's just an unkempt sour puss with zero sex appeal or manners. Especially in this pilot episode. There's also some young library chick earlier in the episode who is making googly eyes at him and wants him to pick her up. I think she's 19. Luckily he tells her she's too young for him. Totally unbelievable! Don't even get me started on him and Linda Evans (super gorgeous!!!) in the "Guardian at the Gates" episode. But at least they softened Harry up a bit by then. Here in this pilot he's really unlikable. I can see why they ordered another pilot. I would have a hard time rooting for this guy. Rude, inconsiderate, entitled, mean-spirited. Just an all around sour-puss. With none of that inner dialogue to explain any of this. I'm glad they changed this when the series got picked up.

Also what was with that tacked-on motorcycle chase at the end? Really didn't fit and just dragged on for way too long. I was looking at the time, waiting for it to end. It also didn't seem to be shot particularly well (or edited) - the sense of geography was unclear most of the time. Judging by how long it was going I was expecting that it was building up to some huge fireball of an explosion but... nope... it just ended with Sal Mineo sliding off it.

Here's hoping that pilot #2 is much better.

Me thinks Ivan is jealous of Harry’s way with the ladies. LOL! Wait until Farah Fawcett drys his hair after a shower and likely gives him a massage in Forbidden City!!!

Seriously though, he didn’t actually move in with her and… by way of comparison though not bragging, I met a girl at a New Years Eve party in 1993 when I was 22 and finishing college. I ended up staying at her apartment for the entire holiday weekend Friday through Sunday. She even drove me back to my apartment Sunday afternoon after a great time. She had driven me to her apartment in those wee hours of New Years morning and remains to this day the only person I know from Delaware! She was a fun girl (though not Margot Kidder or Farah Fawcett ) and we had a fun weekend. We never got together again. It happens sometimes, though I think perhaps less now as I think of the changing times.

I did also miss the voiceovers though.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

So I got around to seeing the first pilot - "Such Dust as Dreams Are Made On". Honestly I wasn't too impressed. The whole drug angle didn't appeal to me. There was a weird and long scene with Grandpa Walton (Will Geer) in a drug lab showing us how to make drugs. Was this a precursor to Breaking Bad? LOL. Martin Sheen as the man who shot Orwell earlier and lodged that bullet into his spine now trying to hire Orwell (after having turned his life around) was a nice premise and I liked that part. One thing that wasn't clear on the crappy version that I watched on YouTube (which had a lot of sudden cuts for whatever reason) was Sheen's fate. Was he killed by Sal Mineo? Mineo shot at both Orwell and Sheen. Obviously Orwell survived but Sheen was no longer seen after this. Was he killed? I'm assuming he was.

Another negative was that there were no voice-overs. Which Pahonu mentioned. Takes a lot away from the show. I also just didn't get his whole relationship with Margot Kidder. Some random woman he picks up at the bar (barely saying 2 words to her and she saying zero words to him) and then they just start living together? Weird, to say the least. Even though he already has a steady girlfriend (and cleaning lady? lol) played by another hottie Marianna Hill who regularly visits his pad and can't seem to keep her hands off him. This is actually something that bothers me. They treat Orwell like he's some chick magnet. Like he's James Bond. When he's just an unkempt sour puss with zero sex appeal or manners. Especially in this pilot episode. There's also some young library chick earlier in the episode who is making googly eyes at him and wants him to pick her up. I think she's 19. Luckily he tells her she's too young for him. Totally unbelievable! Don't even get me started on him and Linda Evans (super gorgeous!!!) in the "Guardian at the Gates" episode. But at least they softened Harry up a bit by then. Here in this pilot he's really unlikable. I can see why they ordered another pilot. I would have a hard time rooting for this guy. Rude, inconsiderate, entitled, mean-spirited. Just an all around sour-puss. With none of that inner dialogue to explain any of this. I'm glad they changed this when the series got picked up.

Also what was with that tacked-on motorcycle chase at the end? Really didn't fit and just dragged on for way too long. I was looking at the time, waiting for it to end. It also didn't seem to be shot particularly well (or edited) - the sense of geography was unclear most of the time. Judging by how long it was going I was expecting that it was building up to some huge fireball of an explosion but... nope... it just ended with Sal Mineo sliding off it.

Here's hoping that pilot #2 is much better.

Ivan,
So there were two TV movie pilots. I haven't yet seen the first pilot you cite - "Such Dust as Dreams Are Made On" as yet but from what you say it is inferior and they didn't have the
formula down yet. To be fair pilots or the first few regular episodes of a series can be 'off'. The first few Bonanza episodes had deeply weird moments. Ben a modern Moses
thundering from Mount Sinai about transgressors against the Bible, Hoss being almost simple minded, Hop Sing '"a celestial star gazer".

I am glad the Harry O producers took another shot after the initial failed pilot movie.

Sunday I watched pilot #2 "Smile Jenny, You're Dead" which was pretty good but still not quite up to the season two episodes I have just watched.
Maybe because guest star "Andrea Marcovicci" always annoys me and the killer was one note.
But it did lay down the basic structure for the series.
Jodie Foster was great as a abandoned kid Harry matches wits with, she and Janssen have real chemistry.

Tonight on You Tube I watched Season One Episode One "Gertrude" and it was terrific, the Harry O that the critics so love in evidence.
Really well done and knockout guest star Julie Sommars played her off beat role just right.
I love stories where I am surprised and it's not the same old same old detective show stuff we have all seen 500 times, and episode one delivers.
How many detective leads roar about not in the latest sports car - Harry's old junker is always in the shop - but on crosstown buses?

As an experiment I had MeTV Plus on at 7 PM when it also ran "Gertrude", my computer screen and TV screen 3 feet from each other.
You Tube's uncut version ran 52 minutes, I'd estimate from that MeTV Plus only edited out maybe another 4 minutes for commercials, not bad
as I believe most new network shows run 42 - 44 minutes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luther has the worst idea since Granddad Gillis gave 2 free tickets to "Our American Cousin" at Fords Theater to Mrs. Lincoln -

Luther: "Find anything out yet from Ice Man?"
Rick: "It's Ice Pick."
Luther: "What's the difference, the man's a bum. I'm kind of inclined to sneak into his steam bath and snap his towel, ya know what I mean?"

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

So I got around to seeing the first pilot - "Such Dust as Dreams Are Made On". Honestly I wasn't too impressed. The whole drug angle didn't appeal to me. There was a weird and long scene with Grandpa Walton (Will Geer) in a drug lab showing us how to make drugs. Was this a precursor to Breaking Bad? LOL. Martin Sheen as the man who shot Orwell earlier and lodged that bullet into his spine now trying to hire Orwell (after having turned his life around) was a nice premise and I liked that part. One thing that wasn't clear on the crappy version that I watched on YouTube (which had a lot of sudden cuts for whatever reason) was Sheen's fate. Was he killed by Sal Mineo? Mineo shot at both Orwell and Sheen. Obviously Orwell survived but Sheen was no longer seen after this. Was he killed? I'm assuming he was.

Another negative was that there were no voice-overs. Which Pahonu mentioned. Takes a lot away from the show. I also just didn't get his whole relationship with Margot Kidder. Some random woman he picks up at the bar (barely saying 2 words to her and she saying zero words to him) and then they just start living together? Weird, to say the least. Even though he already has a steady girlfriend (and cleaning lady? lol) played by another hottie Marianna Hill who regularly visits his pad and can't seem to keep her hands off him. This is actually something that bothers me. They treat Orwell like he's some chick magnet. Like he's James Bond. When he's just an unkempt sour puss with zero sex appeal or manners. Especially in this pilot episode. There's also some young library chick earlier in the episode who is making googly eyes at him and wants him to pick her up. I think she's 19. Luckily he tells her she's too young for him. Totally unbelievable! Don't even get me started on him and Linda Evans (super gorgeous!!!) in the "Guardian at the Gates" episode. But at least they softened Harry up a bit by then. Here in this pilot he's really unlikable. I can see why they ordered another pilot. I would have a hard time rooting for this guy. Rude, inconsiderate, entitled, mean-spirited. Just an all around sour-puss. With none of that inner dialogue to explain any of this. I'm glad they changed this when the series got picked up.

Also what was with that tacked-on motorcycle chase at the end? Really didn't fit and just dragged on for way too long. I was looking at the time, waiting for it to end. It also didn't seem to be shot particularly well (or edited) - the sense of geography was unclear most of the time. Judging by how long it was going I was expecting that it was building up to some huge fireball of an explosion but... nope... it just ended with Sal Mineo sliding off it.

Here's hoping that pilot #2 is much better.

Me thinks Ivan is jealous of Harry’s way with the ladies. LOL! Wait until Farah Fawcett drys his hair after a shower and likely gives him a massage in Forbidden City!!!

Eh, Farrah was always overrated anyway. Now, if Cheryl or Jaclyn dried his hair...

Speaking of pilot #2 it seems that more people tend to prefer that one (from what I've gleaned here and there) so I'm optimistic. And hopefully no more harems for Harry-O.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

Ivan,
To be fair pilots or the first few regular episodes of a series can be 'off'. The first few Bonanza episodes had deeply weird moments. Ben a modern Moses
thundering from Mount Sinai about transgressors against the Bible, Hoss being almost simple minded, Hop Sing '"a celestial star gazer".

Dobe, I got a good laugh from your BONANZA comment! You're right, the first few episodes Ben is such a zealot over his precious Ponderosa that he would shoot and kill any man that steps on it. Like, what the heck??? He would probably shoot poor old grandma between the eyes if she accidentally got lost and stumbled on his land. Sheesh! And yeah Hoss is almost like Lennie from "Of Mice and Men". What can I say about Hop Sing??? He's such a broad caricature but boy do I love him!!! "Meesta Cot-light, meesta Cot-light!" Hot-diggidy, as Little Joe might say.

But anyway, I'm glad they righted the ship. The second half of the season is definitely stronger than the first. But it probably wasn't until season 3 where I think the show really came into its own. Some of my favorite episodes come from that season. "The Crucible" with Lee Marvin, anyone?? Instant classic. Another thing I didn't care for in those early season 1 episodes is what I considered "dull stories" (not the traditional good guys vs. bad guys stories) where they would get some well-known Hollywood star at the time (Yvonne DeCarlo, Ruth Roman, Ida Lupino, etc.) and build the story around her and center too much of it in Virginia City. And some of these would be historical figures (Howard Duff played Mark Twain) that they tried to shoehorn into how Virginia City was born. I really didn't care for those early "genesis of Virginia City" stories. I liked it when it transitioned to more traditional western stories. "Vendetta" I think was a turning point somewhere in the middle of the season. A very good episode which is basically a remake of HIGH NOON, with Ben in the Gary Cooper part. My favorite from season 1 is the season finale "Death at Dawn". A great episode!!

Tonight on You Tube I watched Season One Episode One "Gertrude" and it was terrific, the Harry O that the critics so love in evidence.
Really well done and knockout guest star Julie Sommars played her off beat role just right.
I love stories where I am surprised and it's not the same old same old detective show stuff we have all seen 500 times, and episode one delivers.
How many detective leads roar about not in the latest sports car - Harry's old junker is always in the shop - but on crosstown buses?

Yep, I liked the episode too. It had an offbeat quality to it (with Julie Sommars playing a big part in this, being a quirky character herself) and some memorable dialogue and a story that kept you guessing. I liked "The Admiral's Lady" and "Mortal Sin" more though. But that's probably the Five-O fan in me.

[Pahonu]

So I got around to seeing the first pilot - "Such Dust as Dreams Are Made On". Honestly I wasn't too impressed. The whole drug angle didn't appeal to me. There was a weird and long scene with Grandpa Walton (Will Geer) in a drug lab showing us how to make drugs. Was this a precursor to Breaking Bad? LOL. Martin Sheen as the man who shot Orwell earlier and lodged that bullet into his spine now trying to hire Orwell (after having turned his life around) was a nice premise and I liked that part. One thing that wasn't clear on the crappy version that I watched on YouTube (which had a lot of sudden cuts for whatever reason) was Sheen's fate. Was he killed by Sal Mineo? Mineo shot at both Orwell and Sheen. Obviously Orwell survived but Sheen was no longer seen after this. Was he killed? I'm assuming he was.

Another negative was that there were no voice-overs. Which Pahonu mentioned. Takes a lot away from the show. I also just didn't get his whole relationship with Margot Kidder. Some random woman he picks up at the bar (barely saying 2 words to her and she saying zero words to him) and then they just start living together? Weird, to say the least. Even though he already has a steady girlfriend (and cleaning lady? lol) played by another hottie Marianna Hill who regularly visits his pad and can't seem to keep her hands off him. This is actually something that bothers me. They treat Orwell like he's some chick magnet. Like he's James Bond. When he's just an unkempt sour puss with zero sex appeal or manners. Especially in this pilot episode. There's also some young library chick earlier in the episode who is making googly eyes at him and wants him to pick her up. I think she's 19. Luckily he tells her she's too young for him. Totally unbelievable! Don't even get me started on him and Linda Evans (super gorgeous!!!) in the "Guardian at the Gates" episode. But at least they softened Harry up a bit by then. Here in this pilot he's really unlikable. I can see why they ordered another pilot. I would have a hard time rooting for this guy. Rude, inconsiderate, entitled, mean-spirited. Just an all around sour-puss. With none of that inner dialogue to explain any of this. I'm glad they changed this when the series got picked up.

Also what was with that tacked-on motorcycle chase at the end? Really didn't fit and just dragged on for way too long. I was looking at the time, waiting for it to end. It also didn't seem to be shot particularly well (or edited) - the sense of geography was unclear most of the time. Judging by how long it was going I was expecting that it was building up to some huge fireball of an explosion but... nope... it just ended with Sal Mineo sliding off it.

Here's hoping that pilot #2 is much better.

Me thinks Ivan is jealous of Harry’s way with the ladies. LOL! Wait until Farah Fawcett drys his hair after a shower and likely gives him a massage in Forbidden City!!!

Eh, Farrah was always overrated anyway. Now, if Cheryl or Jaclyn dried his hair...

Speaking of pilot #2 it seems that more people tend to prefer that one (from what I've gleaned here and there) so I'm optimistic. And hopefully no more harems for Harry-O.

I wouldn’t question any of Charlie’s Angels drying his hair… or mine!!! I even remember watching the scene and thinking, “she’s drying his hair” what a great neighbor, but it was actually in the episode.

The second pilot was also very good, but seemed to lack the melancholy aspect of an ex-cop pensioned off the force by a bullet in his back and trying to move on. Perhaps I prefer it because it was my first exposure to the character and I really liked how unique and different it was to me as a young person. I was a senior in high school when I first saw it, if I recall correctly.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

So I got around to seeing the first pilot - "Such Dust as Dreams Are Made On". Honestly I wasn't too impressed. The whole drug angle didn't appeal to me. There was a weird and long scene with Grandpa Walton (Will Geer) in a drug lab showing us how to make drugs. Was this a precursor to Breaking Bad? LOL. Martin Sheen as the man who shot Orwell earlier and lodged that bullet into his spine now trying to hire Orwell (after having turned his life around) was a nice premise and I liked that part. One thing that wasn't clear on the crappy version that I watched on YouTube (which had a lot of sudden cuts for whatever reason) was Sheen's fate. Was he killed by Sal Mineo? Mineo shot at both Orwell and Sheen. Obviously Orwell survived but Sheen was no longer seen after this. Was he killed? I'm assuming he was.

Another negative was that there were no voice-overs. Which Pahonu mentioned. Takes a lot away from the show. I also just didn't get his whole relationship with Margot Kidder. Some random woman he picks up at the bar (barely saying 2 words to her and she saying zero words to him) and then they just start living together? Weird, to say the least. Even though he already has a steady girlfriend (and cleaning lady? lol) played by another hottie Marianna Hill who regularly visits his pad and can't seem to keep her hands off him. This is actually something that bothers me. They treat Orwell like he's some chick magnet. Like he's James Bond. When he's just an unkempt sour puss with zero sex appeal or manners. Especially in this pilot episode. There's also some young library chick earlier in the episode who is making googly eyes at him and wants him to pick her up. I think she's 19. Luckily he tells her she's too young for him. Totally unbelievable! Don't even get me started on him and Linda Evans (super gorgeous!!!) in the "Guardian at the Gates" episode. But at least they softened Harry up a bit by then. Here in this pilot he's really unlikable. I can see why they ordered another pilot. I would have a hard time rooting for this guy. Rude, inconsiderate, entitled, mean-spirited. Just an all around sour-puss. With none of that inner dialogue to explain any of this. I'm glad they changed this when the series got picked up.

Also what was with that tacked-on motorcycle chase at the end? Really didn't fit and just dragged on for way too long. I was looking at the time, waiting for it to end. It also didn't seem to be shot particularly well (or edited) - the sense of geography was unclear most of the time. Judging by how long it was going I was expecting that it was building up to some huge fireball of an explosion but... nope... it just ended with Sal Mineo sliding off it.

Here's hoping that pilot #2 is much better.

Me thinks Ivan is jealous of Harry’s way with the ladies. LOL! Wait until Farah Fawcett drys his hair after a shower and likely gives him a massage in Forbidden City!!!

Eh, Farrah was always overrated anyway. Now, if Cheryl or Jaclyn dried his hair...

Speaking of pilot #2 it seems that more people tend to prefer that one (from what I've gleaned here and there) so I'm optimistic. And hopefully no more harems for Harry-O.

I wouldn’t question any of Charlie’s Angels drying his hair… or mine!!! I even remember watching the scene and thinking, “she’s drying his hair” what a great neighbor, but it was actually in the episode.

The second pilot was also very good, but seemed to lack the melancholy aspect of an ex-cop pensioned off the force by a bullet in his back and trying to move on. Perhaps I prefer it because it was my first exposure to the character and I really liked how unique and different it was to me as a young person. I was a senior in high school when I first saw it, if I recall correctly.

Speaking of Charlie's Angels... I saw on IMDB that Cheryl Ladd was in pilot #1 (playing a teenage girl) but I did not spot her in the episode I saw on YouTube. The version I saw was pretty choppy so maybe her part was missing there. Were you able to spot her? She's definitely not the young library girl that is hitting on Orwell.

[Pahonu]

So I got around to seeing the first pilot - "Such Dust as Dreams Are Made On". Honestly I wasn't too impressed. The whole drug angle didn't appeal to me. There was a weird and long scene with Grandpa Walton (Will Geer) in a drug lab showing us how to make drugs. Was this a precursor to Breaking Bad? LOL. Martin Sheen as the man who shot Orwell earlier and lodged that bullet into his spine now trying to hire Orwell (after having turned his life around) was a nice premise and I liked that part. One thing that wasn't clear on the crappy version that I watched on YouTube (which had a lot of sudden cuts for whatever reason) was Sheen's fate. Was he killed by Sal Mineo? Mineo shot at both Orwell and Sheen. Obviously Orwell survived but Sheen was no longer seen after this. Was he killed? I'm assuming he was.

Another negative was that there were no voice-overs. Which Pahonu mentioned. Takes a lot away from the show. I also just didn't get his whole relationship with Margot Kidder. Some random woman he picks up at the bar (barely saying 2 words to her and she saying zero words to him) and then they just start living together? Weird, to say the least. Even though he already has a steady girlfriend (and cleaning lady? lol) played by another hottie Marianna Hill who regularly visits his pad and can't seem to keep her hands off him. This is actually something that bothers me. They treat Orwell like he's some chick magnet. Like he's James Bond. When he's just an unkempt sour puss with zero sex appeal or manners. Especially in this pilot episode. There's also some young library chick earlier in the episode who is making googly eyes at him and wants him to pick her up. I think she's 19. Luckily he tells her she's too young for him. Totally unbelievable! Don't even get me started on him and Linda Evans (super gorgeous!!!) in the "Guardian at the Gates" episode. But at least they softened Harry up a bit by then. Here in this pilot he's really unlikable. I can see why they ordered another pilot. I would have a hard time rooting for this guy. Rude, inconsiderate, entitled, mean-spirited. Just an all around sour-puss. With none of that inner dialogue to explain any of this. I'm glad they changed this when the series got picked up.

Also what was with that tacked-on motorcycle chase at the end? Really didn't fit and just dragged on for way too long. I was looking at the time, waiting for it to end. It also didn't seem to be shot particularly well (or edited) - the sense of geography was unclear most of the time. Judging by how long it was going I was expecting that it was building up to some huge fireball of an explosion but... nope... it just ended with Sal Mineo sliding off it.

Here's hoping that pilot #2 is much better.

Me thinks Ivan is jealous of Harry’s way with the ladies. LOL! Wait until Farah Fawcett drys his hair after a shower and likely gives him a massage in Forbidden City!!!

Eh, Farrah was always overrated anyway. Now, if Cheryl or Jaclyn dried his hair...

Speaking of pilot #2 it seems that more people tend to prefer that one (from what I've gleaned here and there) so I'm optimistic. And hopefully no more harems for Harry-O.

I wouldn’t question any of Charlie’s Angels drying his hair… or mine!!! I even remember watching the scene and thinking, “she’s drying his hair” what a great neighbor, but it was actually in the episode.

The second pilot was also very good, but seemed to lack the melancholy aspect of an ex-cop pensioned off the force by a bullet in his back and trying to move on. Perhaps I prefer it because it was my first exposure to the character and I really liked how unique and different it was to me as a young person. I was a senior in high school when I first saw it, if I recall correctly.

Speaking of Charlie's Angels... I saw on IMDB that Cheryl Ladd was in pilot #1 (playing a teenage girl) but I did not spot her in the episode I saw on YouTube. The version I saw was pretty choppy so maybe her part was missing there. Were you able to spot her? She's definitely not the young library girl that is hitting on Orwell.

She was very briefly in the scene in the diner where Harry meets Sal Mineo playing the dealer, Walter Scheerer. He excuses himself from the table with Harry and a car drives by shooting into the diner. Ladd screams and buries her face in someone’s chest. That’s it! A waitress is also injured but Cheryl Jean Stoppelmoor, as she was known then, had made her debut.