It Got By The Censor/In Jokes

[Pahonu]

In the season one, episode 10 of Mannix, titled "Coffin for a Clown", ex Bowery Boy Gabe Dell guest stars. At one point sultry Diana Muldaur angrily
sends Mannix on his way with a nonsensical censored version of a once common 1940's insult that today goes over everyone's head:
"I'd hand you your hat but you didn't come in with one."
The line is really "I'd shit in your hat but you didn't come in with one." Personally I'd think twice before laying that on Joe Mannix.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan) wrote:
I just finished season 1 of MANNIX a few weeks ago. It only took me a few years. I started the series a few years back and somewhere along the middle of season 1 got sidetracked by other stuff. Didn't return to pick up where I left off until this summer. It's a fine show which I enjoyed a great deal. I understand the show only gets better going forward, with Joe Mannix working solo and not for the high-tech Intertect corporation. I have seen the later episodes here and there (the Joe flying solo + Peggy episodes) and enjoyed them a great deal as well. 3 episodes in particular that I must point out can hang high with some of the best episodes of any 70s TV detective/cop series. "The Silent Cry" opens the second season with a deaf-mute witness to a crime (played by a real-life deaf-mute actress), "Cold Trail" has some great skiing action on the slopes along with a kidnapping and car chase that can rival any big-screen car chase of the 70s, and "The Empty Tower" has Joe and Bill Bixby trapped by criminals in an empty building on a Sunday, with a great twist at the end and a shocking fall from a great height (basically this episode is a precursor to the classic DIE HARD).

I look forward to seeing more of this fine detective series. Of course I've already seen a few of the episodes where Joe faces an old Korean War buddy from the past who comes back as a psycho to kill Mannix. I think this plot line is a running gag in this series. How many of these psychos did he serve with??? The other running gag is Joe always coming across some sleepy unfriendly town which seems to be harboring some secret. Season 1 had one ("Huntdown") and I've read that there are dozens more like this one. Which is fine by me because I've always liked that type of story. Also I saw the one where Joe's car breaks down in the middle of nowhere and he stumbles onto a hideaway for killers/assassins. Frank Langella and John Hillerman are baddies in that one. That was also an excellent later episode.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ivan,
LOL! I forgot about Joe's squad being recruited exclusively from the people renting rooms at the Bates Motel. To be fair, though the producers kept recycling that story line they were good episodes.
And I think you nailed 3 of the 10 best episodes with the absolutely great "The Silent Cry", "Cold Trail" and "The Empty Tower" with one of my favorite actors Bill Bixby, who could do drama
and comedy and magic and who was also a excellent director. I too liked "Silent Target" and thought John Hillerman overshadowed Langella in the acting department.
Hillerman also played a hitman in the Mannix episode "Search for a Dead Man".
On reflection as to "The Silent Cry" being among the best episodes of 70's TV detective shows, there is so much to like about it I have to agree. In fact I rate it as the best Mannix.
We need Mannix maven Little Garwood to return and put his two cents in. He went on Walkabout before and eventually returned, hopefully he will again.
I always suspected he was a professional writer in the TV/movies sphere going by the jargon he used.

Yep, I agree that the recycled stories of Mannix's former psycho war comrades were pretty good, especially the season 6 episode with Clu Gulager. He was VERY creepy in that one! Especially with half his face hidden in shadows and that maniacal cackle. It's like a mix of Two-Face and the Joker. The other 2 I remember were played by Steve Ihnat and Darren McGavin. Ihnat had Joe go through some kind of labyrinthine pipe in some abandoned building (the details are foggy now) and McGavin was some kind of weirdo karate expert which I think was more comical than creepy.

I agree that Little Garwood should return. I also made the earlier post over on the Mannix thread https://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopi ... 924#p76924 where Garwood was a regular poster. Not sure where he is now. Last I recall he was going through CANNON and posting on that thread. That's another show I need to check out some day. Lots of great detective/cop shows in the 70s!

Hey Ivan,
I went through the whole Cannon series a few years ago and really enjoyed it. There weren’t any really bad episodes that I recall. It was consistently good quality writing and has all the character actors of the time used to good effect. One of my favorites is a two-parter with David Janssen from season three, I believe. Cannon also “lived” in a really cool Art Deco high rise in Hollywood called Sunset Tower. It’s on the National Historic Register and is a very high end hotel now. I’ve been there to meet up with a friend and it’s been beautifully restored. I still occasionally DVR episodes on MeTV+ when one I really like comes up. I recommend it.

https://ibb.co/g9c2cZR
https://ibb.co/263q9QD

The series also filmed around Long Beach in many episodes and it’s fun to see my hometown when I was too young to remember it. The show debuted a couple of weeks before I was born. They even filmed a later season episode with Vera Miles and it included the marina complex where I live now! It was brand new and not even fully occupied the year they filmed here and the greenery looks very sparse compared to today. They also film in a unit in Key 1 that has its totally funky 70’s style on display. There aren’t any left that haven’t been remodeled that I know of, though there are a handful of original owners whose brain I pick occasionally. Really fun to see!

https://ibb.co/cw1yzCj
https://ibb.co/BT3QNkb

Edit:
The Cannon episode using Marina Pacifica is called Fall Guy from season five. Not the best, but solid, especially Vera Miles performance as the baddie.

[Pahonu]

FCC Chairman Newton Minow famously termed television a "vast wasteland" during a 1961 hearing before Congress.
The proud king of lowbrows, TV producer Sherwood Schwartz, took offense.

He had his revenge two years later when he created the pilot for Gilligan's Island(which no doubt even now is perplexing alien civilizations monitoring earth signals).

In the opening montage is the beached, now ineffectual S.S. Minnow, which Schwartz named as a comment on and payback to Chairman Minow.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have Gun Will Travel's Paladin to sore loser:

"No one forces a man to gamble. He comes to the table with his eyes open and he's expected to honor his losses immediately."
Paladin cites Sophocles: "A wise gamester takes the dice as they fall and pays down quietly, rather than grumble at his luck."

Ancient Jersey wisdom: If you can't figure out who the mark is at a poker game, it's you.

Another great story! I did know about this, but I’m certain many had no idea.
Also, your ancient Jersey wisdom was used in The Rockford Files.

Pahonu,
Right you are, courtesy of Jersey Boy David "Sopranos" Chase. Chase was trying to 'class up the joint' by giving the California set Rockford Files some Jersey elan and style.
Along similar lines, I understand UCLA is changing it's name to Rutgers West and the Baywatch remake will be titled "Newark Bay".

Hey Dobie,
I offer my apologies on missing this hilarious response with “Jersey elan”, “Rutgers West”, and “Newark Bay”!

Yo Pahonu,
Fuggedaboudid, thanks for the kind words.
Actually I'm a native of the Golden Bear Republic, born in Sonoma - but Jersey raised - so I only kid about California with tongue planted firmly in cheek.
Always had a great time on visits, Dodger Stadium, Universal Studios(Beaver Cleaver's house was a big kick to see), went to see Carson, Hollywood Bowl, happened to go past the
soon to be torn down Dino's of 77 Sunset Strip fame. I love LA.
However the morning we were leaving our Pasadena motel armed cops were raiding the room directly across the courtyard.
We thought the motel had looked nice when we pulled in, but directly under my bed was a big hole in the wall with a rat trap in front that I didn't see till morning.
Throw in the police raid and you can keep Pasadena, little old lady and all.

Anyway:
In the season one, episode 10 of Mannix, titled "Coffin for a Clown", ex Bowery Boy Gabe Dell guest stars. At one point sultry Diana Muldaur angrily sends Mannix on his way with a
nonsensical censored version of a once common 1940's insult that today goes over everyone's head:
"I'd hand you your hat but you didn't come in with one."

The line is really "I'd shit in your hat but you didn't come in with one." Personally I'd think twice before laying that on Joe Mannix.

Hey Dobie,
I always learn a lot and get a laugh when I read your posts, which I appreciate as a teacher.

Pasadena, like any reasonably large city (it has over 100k people) has some sketchy areas and some very swanky ones. Above Orange Grove Blvd. are some beautiful and historic mansions. Lots of filming is done there like Back to the Future at the historic Gamble House. The area around the border with South Pasadena is not so nice. The same is true of my Long Beach, which is almost 500k population. North Long Beach was Snoop Dog and the LBC, full of gang activity, particularly in the 90’s but much less so now. The southern part is the beach (we are a south facing beach which even confuses locals sometimes ) and includes multiple marinas and multi-million dollar homes on the water. There’s lots of filming down here too. Filming at the old Pike amusement park dates back to silent films and the Little Rascals.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan) wrote:
Yep, I agree that the recycled stories of Mannix's former psycho war comrades were pretty good, especially the season 6 episode with Clu Gulager. He was VERY creepy in that one! Especially with half his face hidden in shadows and that maniacal cackle. It's like a mix of Two-Face and the Joker.  The other 2 I remember were played by Steve Ihnat and Darren McGavin. Ihnat had Joe go through some kind of labyrinthine pipe in some abandoned building (the details are foggy now) and McGavin was some kind of weirdo karate expert which I think was more comical than creepy.
I agree that Little Garwood should return. I also made the earlier post over on the Mannix thread https://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopi ... 924#p76924 where Garwood was a regular poster. Not sure where he is now. Last I recall he was going through CANNON and posting on that thread. That's another show I need to check out some day. Lots of great detective/cop shows in the 70s!

Hi Ivan,
WW 2 fighter pilot William Conrad was aces on Cannon, you will like it, plus it had an exceptional list of guest stars. Plus a TV movie a few years after the show ended.
He ran the last year of 77 Sunset Strip under the aegis of Jack Webb, it was a attempt at a old school Noir detective show and it was actually pretty good but
it turned off viewers because the entire cast of the series had been fired except for Efrem Zimbalist.
I am going to go back and check out the Mannix thread.
-------------------------------------------------------

Pahonu wrote:
Hey Dobie,
I always learn a lot and get a laugh when I read your posts, which I appreciate as a teacher. 
Pasadena, like any reasonably large city (it has over 100k people) has some sketchy areas and some very swanky ones. Above Orange Grove Blvd. are some beautiful and historic mansions. Lots of filming is done there like Back to the Future at the historic Gamble House. The area around the border with South Pasadena is not so nice. The same is true of my Long Beach, which is almost 500k population. North Long Beach was Snoop Dog and the LBC, full of gang activity, particularly in the 90’s but much less so now. The southern part is the beach (we are a south facing beach which even confuses locals sometimes  ) and includes multiple marinas and multi-million dollar homes on the water. There’s lots of filming down here too. Filming at the old Pike amusement park dates back to silent films and the Little Rascals.

Hi Pahonu,
I'll take your word about Pasadena, the Rose Parade is always good. I liked Long Beach, I didn't realize it was such a filming mecca, it must be neat to see your town as it was 80 years ago
on film, seeing the Little Rascals walking the same streets you did.

Some trivia:
 The Dick Van Dyke Show was the last American TV series to be filmed entirely in black and white.
The theme actually had lyrics, written by Morey Amsterdam who played Buddy Sorrell:

So you think that you’ve got trouble?
Well, trouble’s a bubble
So tell old Mr. Trouble to get lost!
Why not hold your head up high and
Stop cryin’, start tryin’
And don’t forget to keep your fingers crossed.
When you find the joy of livin’
Is lovin’ and givin’
You’ll be there when the winning dice are tossed.
A smile is just a frown that’s turned upside-down
So smile, and that frown will defrost.
And don’t forget to keep your fingers crossed.

My buddy sent me the below, it might be a bit of a reach -
In the episode "The Ballad of the Betty Lou", Rob and buddy Jerry Helper(Jerry Paris) have bought a boat together.
Van Dyke calls Paris, who helmed many of the episodes as director, "Captain Queeg".
Jerry Paris had co-starred in the classic film The Caine Mutiny opposite Humphrey Bogart, who memorably played the role of Captain Queeg.

[Pahonu]

ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan) wrote:
Yep, I agree that the recycled stories of Mannix's former psycho war comrades were pretty good, especially the season 6 episode with Clu Gulager. He was VERY creepy in that one! Especially with half his face hidden in shadows and that maniacal cackle. It's like a mix of Two-Face and the Joker.  The other 2 I remember were played by Steve Ihnat and Darren McGavin. Ihnat had Joe go through some kind of labyrinthine pipe in some abandoned building (the details are foggy now) and McGavin was some kind of weirdo karate expert which I think was more comical than creepy.
I agree that Little Garwood should return. I also made the earlier post over on the Mannix thread https://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopi ... 924#p76924 where Garwood was a regular poster. Not sure where he is now. Last I recall he was going through CANNON and posting on that thread. That's another show I need to check out some day. Lots of great detective/cop shows in the 70s!

Hi Ivan,
WW 2 fighter pilot William Conrad was aces on Cannon, you will like it, plus it had an exceptional list of guest stars. Plus a TV movie a few years after the show ended.
He ran the last year of 77 Sunset Strip under the aegis of Jack Webb, it was a attempt at a old school Noir detective show and it was actually pretty good but
it turned off viewers because the entire cast of the series had been fired except for Efrem Zimbalist.
I am going to go back and check out the Mannix thread.
-------------------------------------------------------

Pahonu wrote:
Hey Dobie,
I always learn a lot and get a laugh when I read your posts, which I appreciate as a teacher. 
Pasadena, like any reasonably large city (it has over 100k people) has some sketchy areas and some very swanky ones. Above Orange Grove Blvd. are some beautiful and historic mansions. Lots of filming is done there like Back to the Future at the historic Gamble House. The area around the border with South Pasadena is not so nice. The same is true of my Long Beach, which is almost 500k population. North Long Beach was Snoop Dog and the LBC, full of gang activity, particularly in the 90’s but much less so now. The southern part is the beach (we are a south facing beach which even confuses locals sometimes  ) and includes multiple marinas and multi-million dollar homes on the water. There’s lots of filming down here too. Filming at the old Pike amusement park dates back to silent films and the Little Rascals.

Hi Pahonu,
I'll take your word about Pasadena, the Rose Parade is always good. I liked Long Beach, I didn't realize it was such a filming mecca, it must be neat to see your town as it was 80 years ago
on film, seeing the Little Rascals walking the same streets you did.

Some trivia:
 The Dick Van Dyke Show was the last American TV series to be filmed entirely in black and white.
The theme actually had lyrics, written by Morey Amsterdam who played Buddy Sorrell:

So you think that you’ve got trouble?
Well, trouble’s a bubble
So tell old Mr. Trouble to get lost!
Why not hold your head up high and
Stop cryin’, start tryin’
And don’t forget to keep your fingers crossed.
When you find the joy of livin’
Is lovin’ and givin’
You’ll be there when the winning dice are tossed.
A smile is just a frown that’s turned upside-down
So smile, and that frown will defrost.
And don’t forget to keep your fingers crossed.

My buddy sent me the below, it might be a bit of a reach -
In the episode "The Ballad of the Betty Lou", Rob and buddy Jerry Helper(Jerry Paris) have bought a boat together.
Van Dyke calls Paris, who helmed many of the episodes as director, "Captain Queeg".
Jerry Paris had co-starred in the classic film The Caine Mutiny opposite Humphrey Bogart, who memorably played the role of Captain Queeg.

Hey Dobie,
I didn’t realize that about The Dick Van Dyke Show, cool to know. The African Queen is a classic, but I haven’t seen it in at least 20 years. Might do a revisit soon.

Long Beach actually had a pretty prolific studio in the silent era called Balboa Studios and Fatty Arbuckle filmed there among others. Like much of the silent film list, much is lost. The very first studio built out west was here too. This is the early teens before the Hollywoodland neighborhood existed and the term “Hollywood” was ever associated with film making.

For more recent work, CSI Miami did almost all their filming here for several years as a stand in for Miami, and it works remarkably well. They would use only establishing shots of Miami. Many times while it aired, I came across filming. Much was done in the Alamitos Bay where I live. Once I was out for a walk in a canal neighborhood called Naples and turned a corner and saw a group of police cars with lights flashing… but they were Miami-Dade Police!

My condo complex is even in the background of a scene investigating a car explosion. I don’t recall the title as I didn’t really watch the show. I was literally flipping through the channels with my son looking for something to watch and saw our complex. He thought it was pretty cool. They had filmed it at Mother’s Beach, across the channel. This is the area of the Marine Stadium built for the Olympic rowing events in 1932. Collegiate rowing competitions are still held there among many other things.

Edit:
Here’s a story about Balboa Studios and an archive at Long Beach State.

https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/lost-la/ ... ie-capital

https://cla.csulb.edu/departments/rgrll ... aresearch/

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

So Dobie and Pahonu,

Which is your personal preference? MANNIX or CANNON?

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan) wrote:
Yep, I agree that the recycled stories of Mannix's former psycho war comrades were pretty good, especially the season 6 episode with Clu Gulager. He was VERY creepy in that one! Especially with half his face hidden in shadows and that maniacal cackle. It's like a mix of Two-Face and the Joker.  The other 2 I remember were played by Steve Ihnat and Darren McGavin. Ihnat had Joe go through some kind of labyrinthine pipe in some abandoned building (the details are foggy now) and McGavin was some kind of weirdo karate expert which I think was more comical than creepy.
I agree that Little Garwood should return. I also made the earlier post over on the Mannix thread https://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopi ... 924#p76924 where Garwood was a regular poster. Not sure where he is now. Last I recall he was going through CANNON and posting on that thread. That's another show I need to check out some day. Lots of great detective/cop shows in the 70s!

Hi Ivan,
WW 2 fighter pilot William Conrad was aces on Cannon, you will like it, plus it had an exceptional list of guest stars. Plus a TV movie a few years after the show ended.
He ran the last year of 77 Sunset Strip under the aegis of Jack Webb, it was a attempt at a old school Noir detective show and it was actually pretty good but
it turned off viewers because the entire cast of the series had been fired except for Efrem Zimbalist.
I am going to go back and check out the Mannix thread.
-------------------------------------------------------

Pahonu wrote:
Hey Dobie,
I always learn a lot and get a laugh when I read your posts, which I appreciate as a teacher. 
Pasadena, like any reasonably large city (it has over 100k people) has some sketchy areas and some very swanky ones. Above Orange Grove Blvd. are some beautiful and historic mansions. Lots of filming is done there like Back to the Future at the historic Gamble House. The area around the border with South Pasadena is not so nice. The same is true of my Long Beach, which is almost 500k population. North Long Beach was Snoop Dog and the LBC, full of gang activity, particularly in the 90’s but much less so now. The southern part is the beach (we are a south facing beach which even confuses locals sometimes  ) and includes multiple marinas and multi-million dollar homes on the water. There’s lots of filming down here too. Filming at the old Pike amusement park dates back to silent films and the Little Rascals.

Hi Pahonu,
I'll take your word about Pasadena, the Rose Parade is always good. I liked Long Beach, I didn't realize it was such a filming mecca, it must be neat to see your town as it was 80 years ago
on film, seeing the Little Rascals walking the same streets you did.

Some trivia:
 The Dick Van Dyke Show was the last American TV series to be filmed entirely in black and white.
The theme actually had lyrics, written by Morey Amsterdam who played Buddy Sorrell:

So you think that you’ve got trouble?
Well, trouble’s a bubble
So tell old Mr. Trouble to get lost!
Why not hold your head up high and
Stop cryin’, start tryin’
And don’t forget to keep your fingers crossed.
When you find the joy of livin’
Is lovin’ and givin’
You’ll be there when the winning dice are tossed.
A smile is just a frown that’s turned upside-down
So smile, and that frown will defrost.
And don’t forget to keep your fingers crossed.

My buddy sent me the below, it might be a bit of a reach -
In the episode "The Ballad of the Betty Lou", Rob and buddy Jerry Helper(Jerry Paris) have bought a boat together.
Van Dyke calls Paris, who helmed many of the episodes as director, "Captain Queeg".
Jerry Paris had co-starred in the classic film The Caine Mutiny opposite Humphrey Bogart, who memorably played the role of Captain Queeg.

Hey Dobie,
I didn’t realize that about The Dick Van Dyke Show, cool to know. The African Queen is a classic, but I haven’t seen it in at least 20 years. Might do a revisit soon.
Long Beach actually had a pretty prolific studio in the silent era called Balboa Studios and Fatty Arbuckle filmed there among others. Like much of the silent film list, much is lost. The very first studio built out west was here too. This is the early teens before the Hollywoodland neighborhood existed and the term “Hollywood” was ever associated with film making.
For more recent work, CSI Miami did almost all their filming here for several years as a stand in for Miami, and it works remarkably well. They would use only establishing shots of Miami. Many times while it aired, I came across filming. Much was done in the Alamitos Bay where I live. Once I was out for a walk in a canal neighborhood called Naples and turned a corner and saw a group of police cars with lights flashing… but they were Miami-Dade Police!
My condo complex is even in the background of a scene investigating a car explosion. I don’t recall the title as I didn’t really watch the show. I was literally flipping through the channels with my son looking for something to watch and saw our complex. He thought it was pretty cool. They had filmed it at Mother’s Beach, across the channel. This is the area of the Marine Stadium built for the Olympic rowing events in 1932. Collegiate rowing competitions are still held there among many other things.
Edit:
Here’s a story about Balboa Studios and an archive at Long Beach State.

https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/lost-la/ ... ie-capital

https://cla.csulb.edu/departments/rgrll ... aresearch/

Pahonu,
Just wondering, does your son take after you and exhibit an interest in Hollywood?
Those are two excellent links and I bookmarked them. And after reading what the Horkheimer brothers achieved the traditional story of Hollywood's founding needs an update.
I feel sorry for those two schnooks, first their parents saddled them with the names Herbert and Elwood Horkheimer which is almost like asking to get beat up in elementary school,
and then history ignores their contribution to the flickers.
And though various California slickers heisted the nascent film industry from it's home in Fort Lee, NJ, all is forgiven.

Trivia -
In the first two episodes of Nash Bridges, legendary 1960's Gonzo journalist and author Hunter S. Thompson made an unbilled cameo as a piano player.
Later on he both wrote and supplied story suggestions for several episodes to series star Don Johnson, his next door neighbor in Woody Creek outside Aspen.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

So Dobie and Pahonu,

Which is your personal preference? MANNIX or CANNON?

William Conrad the man is a fascinating person,going from fighter pilot to radio actor, he was the original Matt Dillon on the radio and his version blows James Arness's away. I like Arness but he can't
hold a candle to Conrad in the acting department. Conrad was a much sought after character actor, making a big impression in the great The Killers and stealing every scene he was in from Robert Mitchum
in The Racket. Jack Warner gave him the original Maltese Falcon as a gesture of respect, after his death Conrad's widow got 400 grand for it.
Conrad is also a better actor than Mike Connors, who is very good in his niche but he never had Conrad's range.

For all that, in my opinion Mannix is the superior series, it is obvious it had a much, much higher budget resulting in more care in what you see on screen, from photography to locations to stunt work, etc.
Joe Mannix is arguably one of the all time television PI's, plus his secretary Peggy was an historic breakthrough role, Gail Fisher's voice wow.

Cannon is totally unique as Hollywood tough guys go, a balding 5 ft 7 in man whose weight ranged from 230 to 260 pounds. Conrad's charm brought it off, I doubt there was another hefty actor in Hollywood
who could have. Joe Besser, Buddy Hackett, Godfrey Cambridge, Junior Samples play Cannon? I don't think so!
Damn good show though.

[Pahonu]

ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan) wrote:
Yep, I agree that the recycled stories of Mannix's former psycho war comrades were pretty good, especially the season 6 episode with Clu Gulager. He was VERY creepy in that one! Especially with half his face hidden in shadows and that maniacal cackle. It's like a mix of Two-Face and the Joker.  The other 2 I remember were played by Steve Ihnat and Darren McGavin. Ihnat had Joe go through some kind of labyrinthine pipe in some abandoned building (the details are foggy now) and McGavin was some kind of weirdo karate expert which I think was more comical than creepy.
I agree that Little Garwood should return. I also made the earlier post over on the Mannix thread https://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopi ... 924#p76924 where Garwood was a regular poster. Not sure where he is now. Last I recall he was going through CANNON and posting on that thread. That's another show I need to check out some day. Lots of great detective/cop shows in the 70s!

Hi Ivan,
WW 2 fighter pilot William Conrad was aces on Cannon, you will like it, plus it had an exceptional list of guest stars. Plus a TV movie a few years after the show ended.
He ran the last year of 77 Sunset Strip under the aegis of Jack Webb, it was a attempt at a old school Noir detective show and it was actually pretty good but
it turned off viewers because the entire cast of the series had been fired except for Efrem Zimbalist.
I am going to go back and check out the Mannix thread.
-------------------------------------------------------

Pahonu wrote:
Hey Dobie,
I always learn a lot and get a laugh when I read your posts, which I appreciate as a teacher. 
Pasadena, like any reasonably large city (it has over 100k people) has some sketchy areas and some very swanky ones. Above Orange Grove Blvd. are some beautiful and historic mansions. Lots of filming is done there like Back to the Future at the historic Gamble House. The area around the border with South Pasadena is not so nice. The same is true of my Long Beach, which is almost 500k population. North Long Beach was Snoop Dog and the LBC, full of gang activity, particularly in the 90’s but much less so now. The southern part is the beach (we are a south facing beach which even confuses locals sometimes  ) and includes multiple marinas and multi-million dollar homes on the water. There’s lots of filming down here too. Filming at the old Pike amusement park dates back to silent films and the Little Rascals.

Hi Pahonu,
I'll take your word about Pasadena, the Rose Parade is always good. I liked Long Beach, I didn't realize it was such a filming mecca, it must be neat to see your town as it was 80 years ago
on film, seeing the Little Rascals walking the same streets you did.

Some trivia:
 The Dick Van Dyke Show was the last American TV series to be filmed entirely in black and white.
The theme actually had lyrics, written by Morey Amsterdam who played Buddy Sorrell:

So you think that you’ve got trouble?
Well, trouble’s a bubble
So tell old Mr. Trouble to get lost!
Why not hold your head up high and
Stop cryin’, start tryin’
And don’t forget to keep your fingers crossed.
When you find the joy of livin’
Is lovin’ and givin’
You’ll be there when the winning dice are tossed.
A smile is just a frown that’s turned upside-down
So smile, and that frown will defrost.
And don’t forget to keep your fingers crossed.

My buddy sent me the below, it might be a bit of a reach -
In the episode "The Ballad of the Betty Lou", Rob and buddy Jerry Helper(Jerry Paris) have bought a boat together.
Van Dyke calls Paris, who helmed many of the episodes as director, "Captain Queeg".
Jerry Paris had co-starred in the classic film The Caine Mutiny opposite Humphrey Bogart, who memorably played the role of Captain Queeg.

Hey Dobie,
I didn’t realize that about The Dick Van Dyke Show, cool to know. The African Queen is a classic, but I haven’t seen it in at least 20 years. Might do a revisit soon.
Long Beach actually had a pretty prolific studio in the silent era called Balboa Studios and Fatty Arbuckle filmed there among others. Like much of the silent film list, much is lost. The very first studio built out west was here too. This is the early teens before the Hollywoodland neighborhood existed and the term “Hollywood” was ever associated with film making.
For more recent work, CSI Miami did almost all their filming here for several years as a stand in for Miami, and it works remarkably well. They would use only establishing shots of Miami. Many times while it aired, I came across filming. Much was done in the Alamitos Bay where I live. Once I was out for a walk in a canal neighborhood called Naples and turned a corner and saw a group of police cars with lights flashing… but they were Miami-Dade Police!
My condo complex is even in the background of a scene investigating a car explosion. I don’t recall the title as I didn’t really watch the show. I was literally flipping through the channels with my son looking for something to watch and saw our complex. He thought it was pretty cool. They had filmed it at Mother’s Beach, across the channel. This is the area of the Marine Stadium built for the Olympic rowing events in 1932. Collegiate rowing competitions are still held there among many other things.
Edit:
Here’s a story about Balboa Studios and an archive at Long Beach State.

https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/lost-la/ ... ie-capital

https://cla.csulb.edu/departments/rgrll ... aresearch/

Pahonu,
Just wondering, does your son take after you and exhibit an interest in Hollywood?
Those are two excellent links and I bookmarked them. And after reading what the Horkheimer brothers achieved the traditional story of Hollywood's founding needs an update.
I feel sorry for those two schnooks, first their parents saddled them with the names Herbert and Elwood Horkheimer which is almost like asking to get beat up in elementary school,
and then history ignores their contribution to the flickers.
And though various California slickers heisted the nascent film industry from it's home in Fort Lee, NJ, all is forgiven.

Trivia -
In the first two episodes of Nash Bridges, legendary 1960's Gonzo journalist and author Hunter S. Thompson made an unbilled cameo as a piano player.
Later on he both wrote and supplied story suggestions for several episodes to series star Don Johnson, his next door neighbor in Woody Creek outside Aspen.

Hey Dobie,

My son really doesn’t show much interest in Hollywood history. He just thought it was cool to see his home onscreen. He’s actually a senior at Long Beach State, but is not studying history like his old man. He’s a marketing major, so maybe he’ll get into film marketing! My area of focus for my masters was US labor history, which includes the film industry, after my wading into the production field earlier. Of course, living here provides a lot more interesting angle as well.

The real failure of Balboa Studios was not to vertically integrate the industry, in production, distribution, and exhibition, like the Hollywood studios did before the antitrust laws broke up their monopolies. By then, Balboa was gone and the “Hollywood” story was born. I just feel that it’s always best to hear the whole story.

In regards to early NJ film production, there’s an excellent documentary about the French female director Alice Guy Blache and her work there that I recommend. She originally worked for Gaumont in France and then established Solax Studios in NY and later NJ. I’ll look for a link. It was narrated by Jodie Foster. She’s even in the NJ Hall of Fame.

Edit:
Here it is. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ok5xW-Xrn0

[Pahonu]

So Dobie and Pahonu,

Which is your personal preference? MANNIX or CANNON?

Hey Ivan,

I agree with Dobie that William Conrad had a greater range as an actor than Mike Connors. I suppose that’s the reason I prefer Cannon. Connors (and you’re going to object ) and Jack Lord, were good in their niche, but less appealing overall in my opinion. They were all excellent series, but I would rank them H5-0, Cannon, Mannix. Lord gets the advantage of an exotic Hawaiian locale. See I can rank stuff! None of them holds a candle to James Garner as Rockford though, regardless of locale! I would also put David Janssen as Harry O ahead of all three as well, but that’s an argument for when you have seen the series.

[308GUY]

I would also put David Janssen as Harry O ahead of all three as well, but that’s an argument for when you have seen the series.

Here-here! "YES!"

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

So Dobie and Pahonu,

Which is your personal preference? MANNIX or CANNON?

William Conrad the man is a fascinating person,going from fighter pilot to radio actor, he was the original Matt Dillon on the radio and his version blows James Arness's away. I like Arness but he can't
hold a candle to Conrad in the acting department. Conrad was a much sought after character actor, making a big impression in the great The Killers and stealing every scene he was in from Robert Mitchum
in The Racket. Jack Warner gave him the original Maltese Falcon as a gesture of respect, after his death Conrad's widow got 400 grand for it.
Conrad is also a better actor than Mike Connors, who is very good in his niche but he never had Conrad's range.

For all that, in my opinion Mannix is the superior series, it is obvious it had a much, much higher budget resulting in more care in what you see on screen, from photography to locations to stunt work, etc.
Joe Mannix is arguably one of the all time television PI's, plus his secretary Peggy was an historic breakthrough role, Gail Fisher's voice wow.

Cannon is totally unique as Hollywood tough guys go, a balding 5 ft 7 in man whose weight ranged from 230 to 260 pounds. Conrad's charm brought it off, I doubt there was another hefty actor in Hollywood
who could have. Joe Besser, Buddy Hackett, Godfrey Cambridge, Junior Samples play Cannon? I don't think so!
Damn good show though.

It's interesting that you mention 1946's THE KILLERS. I just saw the film about a month ago. The diner scene at the start with William Conrad and Charles McGraw is definitely the highlight of the picture. Pretty tense! Great dialogue! I also saw the 1964 version with Lee Marvin and Clu Gulager playing the two killers. Marvin is great as always and Gulager gives an interesting twitchy performance as the more psychotic of the two. It's also a hoot watching my man Ronnie Reagan slap Angie Dickinson around. These 2 discs are actually the last 2 that I got from Netflix, as they just discontinued their DVD-in-the-mail service last month. So it was kind of bittersweet. Been receiving DVDs from them since 2006.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

So Dobie and Pahonu,

Which is your personal preference? MANNIX or CANNON?

Hey Ivan,

I agree with Dobie that William Conrad had a greater range as an actor than Mike Connors. I suppose that’s the reason I prefer Cannon. Connors (and you’re going to object ) and Jack Lord, were good in their niche, but less appealing overall in my opinion. They were all excellent series, but I would rank them H5-0, Cannon, Mannix. Lord gets the advantage of an exotic Hawaiian locale. See I can rank stuff! None of them holds a candle to James Garner as Rockford though, regardless of locale! I would also put David Janssen as Harry O ahead of all three as well, but that’s an argument for when you have seen the series.

Oh I've seen several episodes of HARRY-O and definitely enjoyed the series from the episodes that I saw. I'd say it's on par with ROCKFORD for sure. Though I'd give Jimmy the edge over Janssen.

Of course HAWAII FIVE-O is in a class all its own. The greatest thing since sliced bread. But that's a given. And Olivier could take acting classes from our man Jack Lord. That's a given too!

[Pahonu]

So Dobie and Pahonu,

Which is your personal preference? MANNIX or CANNON?

Hey Ivan,

I agree with Dobie that William Conrad had a greater range as an actor than Mike Connors. I suppose that’s the reason I prefer Cannon. Connors (and you’re going to object ) and Jack Lord, were good in their niche, but less appealing overall in my opinion. They were all excellent series, but I would rank them H5-0, Cannon, Mannix. Lord gets the advantage of an exotic Hawaiian locale. See I can rank stuff! None of them holds a candle to James Garner as Rockford though, regardless of locale! I would also put David Janssen as Harry O ahead of all three as well, but that’s an argument for when you have seen the series.

And Olivier could take acting classes from our man Jack Lord. That's a given too!

And I repeat your comment is comical… though completely inaccurate! Lord couldn’t act his way out of a paper bag next to Garner or Janssen!

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

 ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan) wrote:
It's interesting that you mention 1946's THE KILLERS. I just saw the film about a month ago. The diner scene at the start with William Conrad and Charles McGraw is definitely the highlight of the picture. Pretty tense! Great dialogue! I also saw the 1964 version with Lee Marvin and Clu Gulager playing the two killers. Marvin is great as always and Gulager gives an interesting twitchy performance as the more psychotic of the two. It's also a hoot watching my man Ronnie Reagan slap Angie Dickinson around.  These 2 discs are actually the last 2 that I got from Netflix, as they just discontinued their DVD-in-the-mail service last month. So it was kind of bittersweet.  Been receiving DVDs from them since 2006.

Hi Ivan,
Hemingway's short story - one of his best - "The Killers" basically took place in the diner. That's why it's the highlight of the film, the balance was Hollywood expanding the story line though that was
very well done as well.  Papa covered the boxing camps in the Watchung Mtns of NJ for the Kansas City Star. The story goes the  Summit Diner(Summit, NJ) inspired the short story as the locals back when
recalled him writing there, but scholars deny that as there is no written record of Hemingway penning his columns in the Diner. 
Oral history doesn't get the respect it should from historians, the experts for hundreds of years denied the hand me down stories in several Swiss villages of raiding Mongols penetrating there.
Then with the advent of modern DNA tests, lo and behold, many of the families had genetic material from  Mongol tribes.
When Reagan was president the remake wasn't shown as he is killed at the end of it, columnists went overboard worrying that after sitting thru an entire
movie watching Lee Marvin etc shooting up the joint, viewers suddenly would think the actor Reagan portraying a role was now the real life president getting shot.

-------------------------------
Pahonu  wrote:
Hey Dobie,
My son really doesn’t show much interest in Hollywood history. He just thought it was cool to see his home onscreen. He’s actually a senior at Long Beach State, but is not studying history like his old man. He’s a marketing major, so maybe he’ll get into film marketing!  My area of focus for my masters was US labor history, which includes the film industry, after my wading into the production field earlier. Of course, living here provides a lot more interesting angle as well.
The real failure of Balboa Studios was not to vertically integrate the industry, in production, distribution, and exhibition, like the Hollywood studios did before the antitrust laws broke up their monopolies. By then, Balboa was gone and the “Hollywood” story was born. I just feel that it’s always best to hear the whole story.
In regards to early NJ film production, there’s an excellent documentary about the French female director Alice Guy Blache and her work there that I recommend. She originally worked for Gaumont in France and then established Solax Studios in NY and later NJ. I’ll look for a link. It was narrated by Jodie Foster. She’s even in the NJ Hall of Fame. 

Pahonu,
Excellent documentary, Blache sure got short shrift when it comes to recognition. I already sent that link to others and was congratulated on my good taste by my pal out in the sticks of New South Wales.
I felt a little guilty not crediting you, but I will get over it. Okay I actually did credit you. I keep trying to get people to check out Magnum Mania and I was hoping your link would help lure her here.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

So Dobie and Pahonu,

Which is your personal preference? MANNIX or CANNON?

Hey Ivan,

I agree with Dobie that William Conrad had a greater range as an actor than Mike Connors. I suppose that’s the reason I prefer Cannon. Connors (and you’re going to object ) and Jack Lord, were good in their niche, but less appealing overall in my opinion. They were all excellent series, but I would rank them H5-0, Cannon, Mannix. Lord gets the advantage of an exotic Hawaiian locale. See I can rank stuff! None of them holds a candle to James Garner as Rockford though, regardless of locale! I would also put David Janssen as Harry O ahead of all three as well, but that’s an argument for when you have seen the series.

And Olivier could take acting classes from our man Jack Lord. That's a given too!

And I repeat your comment is comical… though completely inaccurate! Lord couldn’t act his way out of a paper bag next to Garner or Janssen!

I won't dispute Garner's acting creds but Janssen to me is a sleep-walker. I haven't seen anything of him that comes even close to Jack Lord's range. HARRY-O is a good show not because of him but in spite of him. Case in point - the reason I couldn't get into THE FUGITIVE is because Janssen is such a joyless screen presence. Way too low-key for my tastes. And the material around him didn't hold my interest either. In the case of HARRY-O the material is really good so I can enjoy it even if I'm not a Janssen fan. Though I do like his voice-overs. So yeah Janssen comes across as pretty flat to me.