An interesting article about Hawaii

[Pahonu]

" granting a vote for self-determination by the residents." That is very white of America to grant Hawaiian resident s Anything. That's another trick up the sleeve of the oppressors " Well they voted on statehood so they must've wanted it " Hawaiians did not trust any Haole system, voting system included.. 1959 saw the very soon and expeditious Destruction of the local and hawaiian way of life. their homes were taken away their culture was taken away their land was taken away. There is an old axiom here : the Western mindset will never understand the Polynesian way. It is a wholly other culture here and only those who spent decades Here to have developed a strong foundation in Polynesian culture And Hawaiian history will understand the anger that many kanaka maoli have. I may not condone violence at outsiders but I do understand.

I very much understand the anger, and also do not condone the violence. This is sadly not a unique experience of an indiginous population and their way of life being forever changed or even destroyed completely as in many Native American groups. But my question then would be what is a solution, besides the impossibility of turning back the clock, that would redress the grievances of those that support the sovereignty movement?

[ConchRepublican]

Does the sovereignty movement want a return to Kapu?

[Braddah Kimo]

Unfortunately one of the problems is there are so many factions of sovereignty movements Is really hard to get a grasp of what exactly everyone wants.there are efforts to get everyone in one into one concerted Group and direction. At the very least they want more so governance they want reparations they want Hawaiian lands back return to them they want the general haole greed to stop. They want their homes back they want their land back they want their culture back they want more respect given to Their lineage their birthright all impossible thingsapparently.

I don't think that any of them are unrealistic enough to believe that the state can secede from America and everything returned back to pre- monarchy days even back to the kapu system. But take a look at the second part of that aforementioned article those are the causes of the discord whatever is on that list that can be curtailed now,many would be happy for

[Braddah Kimo]

One of my favorite writers on Hawaii... http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/Pa ... ce=android

[Doc Ibold]

Very interesting and informative read!

[Danno]

Yeah, that was fascinating, Kimo. Thanks for posting.

New word: nesomania.

Also confirms why I wouldn't surf anywhere else on Hawaii other than the tourist friendly Waikiki. I'd be too scared I'd piss off the locals!

[Pahonu]

Great article. I was most intrigued personally by the concept of the island (any island) placing pressure on the society because of limited space. From an evolutionary biology perspective this is well understood as described by Foster's rule. This helps explain the massive number of endemic species found on islands, and if I'm not mistaken, Hawaii has more endemic species than any place on the planet. The author, however, provides substantial evidence that the same limitations create sociological pressures on islands as well. I'm suddenly very fascinated by this concept. I need to do a little research myself. Thanks for the article, Kimo.

[Pahonu]

Some interesting facts: There are 550 million people living on islands, around 10% of the world’s total population, but islands (Australia and Antarctica are continents thus excluded, though this is contestable) occupy just 1.86% of the Earth’s surface area. 106 out of 812 UNESCO’s World Heritage Sites are on islands or else are islands in total. No fewer than 43 (22%) of the world’s sovereign states are exclusively island states. And many states have one or more island regions or sub-national jurisdictions. Innovative forms of sovereignty tend to involve islands, especially small islands e.g. Aruba (Status Aparte), Aland, the Isle of Man, Mayotte, Puerto Rico and dozens of other island territories have struck unique status arrangements with much larger national or supra-national bodies. (Baldacchino, 2006)

[Pahonu]

Yeah, that was fascinating, Kimo. Thanks for posting.

New word: nesomania.

Another new word: nissology is defined as the study of islands on their own terms.

Islands -small-islands in particular- are distinct enough spaces or harbour extreme enough renditions of more general processes, to deserve their continued respect as subjects/objects of academic focus and inquiry. Islands are somewhat manageable for study (somewhat closed systems). It is a unique psychological, social, cultural, political, and environmental experience/phenomena to study.

[Braddah Kimo]

One other thing causing the discord here on the island something called the tail biting syndrome ... You put a few rats in a large box they get along okay you put a whole bunch of rats in a smaller box they start biting each other 's tail

[The Birdman]

It is funny that when I wanted to move there EVERYBODY told me how bad it sucks in Hawaii. No jobs, high cost of living, basically they all tell you "don't move here, it sucks". So one of the conclusions I've come to in my life is that the more a place sucks, the more they hate outsiders.
I was born and raised in Orange County California, great place, everybody I knew was a success there. NO RACISM or hatred of outsiders. Very diverse place.

Then I moved to a small run down town in central california, they seemed to hate anyone from southern california.

Then I moved to Oregon. This place sucks pretty bad. Seriously! I have met people who have kids with there cousins, most people are on welfare or disability and they strongly hate anyone from california.

It's just strange how if you live in a real crappy place you hate people from anywhere else.

[The Birdman]

One other thing causing the discord here on the island something called the tail biting syndrome ... You put a few rats in a large box they get along okay you put a whole bunch of rats in a smaller box they start biting each other 's tail

I always thought that was why people from New York City seem to have an attitude. But Hawaii seems to have a lot of open land? I know you'll say I'm wrong, but when I was looking I saw lots of secluded acreage cheap, so it's not all like Honolulu, right? I kinda get the thing about hating outsiders. I even start to tell other people who say they are moving to Oregon From California to take a hike, GO ELSE WHERE! With me it is kind of a cautionary tale. I came here and was out of work for 3 years and now working a pretty minumal job.

[The Birdman]

I ran into another guy at work the other day. He was an older gentleman, he said his father owned a business over in HI, I want to say he said ornimental concrete(?), he said he spent a lot of time there and never saw any of this harassment. He said all this stuff you read on the 'net is "just people playing games". I dunno. Anyways, I'm still looking at visiting over there and investigating all this cheap real estate I keep finding on craigslist.

[Doc Ibold]

I ran into another guy at work the other day. He was an older gentleman, he said his father owned a business over in HI, I want to say he said ornimental concrete(?), he said he spent a lot of time there and never saw any of this harassment. He said all this stuff you read on the 'net is "just people playing games". I dunno. Anyways, I'm still looking at visiting over there and investigating all this cheap real estate I keep finding on craigslist.

Probably stamped/decorative concrete. Great stuff. My patio is that. Power wash it down every 5 years and you're straight.. And that's only if you care about fading. The pattern stays and you never have to touch it.

[BWheelz54]

Very insightful thread. I must first admit I know nothing of what's going on in Hawaii. But, could the sense of alienation and anger perhaps be comparable to some of the alienation and anger that is felt by various ethnicities and classes on the mainland? My question would be is there a widening gap between few "haves" and more "have nots" taking place on Hawaii, and might this also be taking place on the mainland? I ask as this seems to be a very important, and real, topic of debate not only for Hawaii, but for all the other states and the nation as well. I don't want to say if there is or is not. I don't want to start screaming about one political viewpoint over another. But saying I think it is important to pause and consider.

BUT I did try to teach high school for several years. Terrible, selfish and timid administrators, not students or kids, were what drove me out of the profession. I saw such inexcusable behavior from students that simply went unchecked because superintendents and principals, honestly, just didn't want to stick their neck out and deal with it. So a few bad apples, as the maxim goes, truly ruined it for everybody. So this comment in the article really raised my heckles once again.

"The report also concluded that school officials responded inadequately or not at all when students complained of racial harassment. Students who did complain were retaliated against by their antagonists. "They learned not to report this stuff," Mohr says of her own daughters."

Just no excuse for that behavior being tolerated. Don't really blame the kids in the school as much as the parents, teachers and ESPECIALLY the school boards and administers who just say, "Ah shucks, kids will be kids." Just infuriating.