Thomas Magnum--wimps out?

[Pahonu]

Proves nothing. TM became a civilian and is treated as one. Moreover, he probably committed multiple crimes breaking into the base and military property. If he was so detested by top brass as you say, then he would be still in prison today. He even gets promoted by the top brass of all, Commander-in-Chief and intends or actualizes reinstatement into the Navy as Commander, things that never would happen if he was detested for merely resigning from the Navy as you say.

You stated, "It was pretty well established in the pilot that TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting." OED: persona non grata: unwelcome. Of course because he is a civilian. Quitting has nothing to do with it. He severed relations with the Navy. He cut his membership. You think any former serviceperson can just stroll on military bases as they feel? No, absolutely not. Trespassing is a crime. If Top Brass really detested him, it would be that he is a pesky trespasser. He is unwelcome because he is a civilian, plain and simple.

Why do you keep saying that he was detested by the brass for quitting. I never said that he was “detested” and I don’t think he was. I said he was persona non grata or “unwelcome” as you accurately said. The evidence for that is the whole scene in Cooley’s office. TM seemed to be on a career path with all the right connections and then walked away. He was no longer in that group now and was unwelcome. I made no claim that he was “detested”. This has happened before in our posts. Again, please don’t attribute comments to me that I didn’t make.

I also stated that he used old friends as contacts not the top brass. Ski at the guard gate giving him a pass into both Pearl and Hickam is an example of that. He’s not “a civilian, plain and simple” as you wrote. He is a former navy officer with inside contacts, just not with the top brass. Mac provided such help multiple times as well. I believe you were speculating in your earlier post that TM might possibly have formed some such relationship with the admiral but it’s never depicted in the show. I’m not saying it could never happen, I was just providing examples of what did happen in the series.

[Mark de Croix]

Proves nothing. TM became a civilian and is treated as one. Moreover, he probably committed multiple crimes breaking into the base and military property. If he was so detested by top brass as you say, then he would be still in prison today. He even gets promoted by the top brass of all, Commander-in-Chief and intends or actualizes reinstatement into the Navy as Commander, things that never would happen if he was detested for merely resigning from the Navy as you say.

You stated, "It was pretty well established in the pilot that TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting." OED: persona non grata: unwelcome. Of course because he is a civilian. Quitting has nothing to do with it. He severed relations with the Navy. He cut his membership. You think any former serviceperson can just stroll on military bases as they feel? No, absolutely not. Trespassing is a crime. If Top Brass really detested him, it would be that he is a pesky trespasser. He is unwelcome because he is a civilian, plain and simple.

Why do you keep saying that he was detested by the brass for quitting. I never said that he was “detested” and I don’t think he was. I said he was persona non grata or “unwelcome” as you accurately said. The evidence for that is the whole scene in Cooley’s office. TM seemed to be on a career path with all the right connections and then walked away. He was no longer in that group now and was unwelcome. I made no claim that he was “detested”. This has happened before in our posts. Again, please don’t attribute comments to me that I didn’t make.

I also stated that he used old friends as contacts not the top brass. Ski at the guard gate giving him a pass into both Pearl and Hickam is an example of that. He’s not “a civilian, plain and simple” as you wrote. He is a former navy officer with inside contacts, just not with the top brass. Mac provided such help multiple times as well. I believe you were speculating in your earlier post that TM might possibly have formed some such relationship with the admiral but it’s never depicted in the show. I’m not saying it could never happen, I was just providing examples of what did happen in the series.

Again, you prove nothing. Your assertion that TM is not a civilian is false. Here is what you wrote: "He’s not 'a civilian, plain and simple' as you [Mark] wrote." Let me repeat: He is civilian because he left the military. He no longer is allowed on military bases without permission. Thus he must use deception or burglary to gain entrance. That means he is unwelcome. (Actually your use of "persona non grata" is misused, for it is typically used in situations of diplomacy involving foreign diplomatic personnel.)

I agree TM is not an ordinary civilian--he was a highly distinguished naval officer--but that means squat: He has no more right to enter a military base than you or I.

Why does his civilian status matter? You falsely claim that he is unwelcome to "Navy brass" because he quit the Navy. Your statement verbatim: "TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting."

No, he is unwelcome because he is a civilian. Your claim that he is unwelcome because he quit implicates a negative attitude possessed by Navy brass. But you have yet to substantiate such. In fact evidence is quite contrary to that: TM never would have been promoted to Commander by the President of the US if Navy brass were so negatively disposed to him.

Why I should object to your false claims is because you falsely infer that I viewed TM as seeking a working relationship with the admiral. Here is your statement verbatim: "I don’t think Magnum was going to be able to develop a working relationship with any admirals after Mac’s death."

I never stated nor implied such. However TM already had a working relationship with the Admiral in episode S3E1 Did you see the sunrise. If you watched it you would know that TM works cooperatively (though thorny at times) with the admiral to stop the assassination of the visiting Japanese prince. The fact that TM saved the admiral's ass by avoiding a huge international disaster surely would present a possible working relationship between the two. I did not intend to claim that; merely I reasonably proposed that such could lead to contacts for professional or business opportunities for TM.

[Pahonu]

Proves nothing. TM became a civilian and is treated as one. Moreover, he probably committed multiple crimes breaking into the base and military property. If he was so detested by top brass as you say, then he would be still in prison today. He even gets promoted by the top brass of all, Commander-in-Chief and intends or actualizes reinstatement into the Navy as Commander, things that never would happen if he was detested for merely resigning from the Navy as you say.

You stated, "It was pretty well established in the pilot that TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting." OED: persona non grata: unwelcome. Of course because he is a civilian. Quitting has nothing to do with it. He severed relations with the Navy. He cut his membership. You think any former serviceperson can just stroll on military bases as they feel? No, absolutely not. Trespassing is a crime. If Top Brass really detested him, it would be that he is a pesky trespasser. He is unwelcome because he is a civilian, plain and simple.

Why do you keep saying that he was detested by the brass for quitting. I never said that he was “detested” and I don’t think he was. I said he was persona non grata or “unwelcome” as you accurately said. The evidence for that is the whole scene in Cooley’s office. TM seemed to be on a career path with all the right connections and then walked away. He was no longer in that group now and was unwelcome. I made no claim that he was “detested”. This has happened before in our posts. Again, please don’t attribute comments to me that I didn’t make.

I also stated that he used old friends as contacts not the top brass. Ski at the guard gate giving him a pass into both Pearl and Hickam is an example of that. He’s not “a civilian, plain and simple” as you wrote. He is a former navy officer with inside contacts, just not with the top brass. Mac provided such help multiple times as well. I believe you were speculating in your earlier post that TM might possibly have formed some such relationship with the admiral but it’s never depicted in the show. I’m not saying it could never happen, I was just providing examples of what did happen in the series.

Again, you prove nothing. Your assertion that TM is not a civilian is false. Here is what you wrote: "He’s not 'a civilian, plain and simple' as you [Mark] wrote." Let me repeat: He is civilian because he left the military. He no longer is allowed on military bases without permission. Thus he must use deception or burglary to gain entrance. That means he is unwelcome. (Actually your use of "persona non grata" is misused, for it is typically used in situations of diplomacy involving foreign diplomatic personnel.)

I agree TM is not an ordinary civilian--he was a highly distinguished naval officer--but that means squat: He has no more right to enter a military base than you or I.

Why does his civilian status matter? You falsely claim that he is unwelcome to "Navy brass" because he quit the Navy. Your statement verbatim: "TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting."

No, he is unwelcome because he is a civilian. Your claim that he is unwelcome because he quit implicates a negative attitude possessed by Navy brass. But you have yet to substantiate such. In fact evidence is quite contrary to that: TM never would have been promoted to Commander by the President of the US if Navy brass were so negatively disposed to him.

Why I should object to your false claims is because you falsely infer that I viewed TM as seeking a working relationship with the admiral. Here is your statement verbatim: "I don’t think Magnum was going to be able to develop a working relationship with any admirals after Mac’s death."

I never stated nor implied such. However TM already had a working relationship with the Admiral in episode S3E1 Did you see the sunrise. If you watched it you would know that TM works cooperatively (though thorny at times) with the admiral to stop the assassination of the visiting Japanese prince. The fact that TM saved the admiral's ass by avoiding a huge international disaster surely would present a possible working relationship between the two. I did not intend to claim that; merely I reasonably proposed that such could lead to contacts for professional or business opportunities for TM.

I have no further arguments based on statements I didn’t make and you falsely attribute to me. Best of luck with your continued conjecture. Your intellectual dishonesty is unfortunate. My reputation on this forum for the last decade plus speaks for itself.

[Mark de Croix]

Proves nothing. TM became a civilian and is treated as one. Moreover, he probably committed multiple crimes breaking into the base and military property. If he was so detested by top brass as you say, then he would be still in prison today. He even gets promoted by the top brass of all, Commander-in-Chief and intends or actualizes reinstatement into the Navy as Commander, things that never would happen if he was detested for merely resigning from the Navy as you say.

You stated, "It was pretty well established in the pilot that TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting." OED: persona non grata: unwelcome. Of course because he is a civilian. Quitting has nothing to do with it. He severed relations with the Navy. He cut his membership. You think any former serviceperson can just stroll on military bases as they feel? No, absolutely not. Trespassing is a crime. If Top Brass really detested him, it would be that he is a pesky trespasser. He is unwelcome because he is a civilian, plain and simple.

Why do you keep saying that he was detested by the brass for quitting. I never said that he was “detested” and I don’t think he was. I said he was persona non grata or “unwelcome” as you accurately said. The evidence for that is the whole scene in Cooley’s office. TM seemed to be on a career path with all the right connections and then walked away. He was no longer in that group now and was unwelcome. I made no claim that he was “detested”. This has happened before in our posts. Again, please don’t attribute comments to me that I didn’t make.

I also stated that he used old friends as contacts not the top brass. Ski at the guard gate giving him a pass into both Pearl and Hickam is an example of that. He’s not “a civilian, plain and simple” as you wrote. He is a former navy officer with inside contacts, just not with the top brass. Mac provided such help multiple times as well. I believe you were speculating in your earlier post that TM might possibly have formed some such relationship with the admiral but it’s never depicted in the show. I’m not saying it could never happen, I was just providing examples of what did happen in the series.

Again, you prove nothing. Your assertion that TM is not a civilian is false. Here is what you wrote: "He’s not 'a civilian, plain and simple' as you [Mark] wrote." Let me repeat: He is civilian because he left the military. He no longer is allowed on military bases without permission. Thus he must use deception or burglary to gain entrance. That means he is unwelcome. (Actually your use of "persona non grata" is misused, for it is typically used in situations of diplomacy involving foreign diplomatic personnel.)

I agree TM is not an ordinary civilian--he was a highly distinguished naval officer--but that means squat: He has no more right to enter a military base than you or I.

Why does his civilian status matter? You falsely claim that he is unwelcome to "Navy brass" because he quit the Navy. Your statement verbatim: "TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting."

No, he is unwelcome because he is a civilian. Your claim that he is unwelcome because he quit implicates a negative attitude possessed by Navy brass. But you have yet to substantiate such. In fact evidence is quite contrary to that: TM never would have been promoted to Commander by the President of the US if Navy brass were so negatively disposed to him.

Why I should object to your false claims is because you falsely infer that I viewed TM as seeking a working relationship with the admiral. Here is your statement verbatim: "I don’t think Magnum was going to be able to develop a working relationship with any admirals after Mac’s death."

I never stated nor implied such. However TM already had a working relationship with the Admiral in episode S3E1 Did you see the sunrise. If you watched it you would know that TM works cooperatively (though thorny at times) with the admiral to stop the assassination of the visiting Japanese prince. The fact that TM saved the admiral's ass by avoiding a huge international disaster surely would present a possible working relationship between the two. I did not intend to claim that; merely I reasonably proposed that such could lead to contacts for professional or business opportunities for TM.

I have no further arguments based on statements I didn’t make and you falsely attribute to me. Best of luck with your continued conjecture. Your intellectual dishonesty is unfortunate. My reputation on this forum for the last decade plus speaks for itself.

Your claims are baseless--both your false assertions about my observations about MPI as well as my treatment of your posts. I quoted you correctly and made no false attributions. You are not someone to judge another's intellectual honestly, believe me you're not. You cannot accept you erred in viewing MPI. Your lack of openness cannot sustain this discussion.

[Spagnum]

Dude, what's your problem here? Starting arguments and being all rude? And also with the whole "smoking weed" discussion you started? It's all stupid, uninteresting nonsense. Believe whatever you want. Nobody cares.

[Mark de Croix]

Hey, dude, thnx for dropping by. It seems you got out of the wrong side of the bed today. I hope you get more restive sleep and you might also try following your own advice. Have a good day.

[Spagnum]

I figured this type of response was coming. The equivalent of someone cutting you off in traffic and when you honk, they flip you off (i.e., a jerk acting like a jerk and then when a non-jerk calls him on it, deflects it backs and defends himself like he's in the right.) This kind of person infects all levels of society nowadays.

[Pahonu]

I figured this type of response was coming. The equivalent of someone cutting you off in traffic and when you honk, they flip you off (i.e., a jerk acting like a jerk and then when a non-jerk calls him on it, deflects it backs and defends himself like he's in the right.) This kind of person infects all levels of society nowadays.

Don’t waste your time. This is the second time he has tried to prove a point by making up something that I never said and then telling me what “I” said is wrong. The entire conversation is there for anyone to read and see despite his claim of not misquoting me. On a funnier note, I was also surprised to read in his recent post that I erred in my viewing of Magnum PI. For the last 42 years I didn’t realize there was a right and, apparently, wrong way to view the show. I simply gave examples of dialogue from episodes but I guess that’s an error if it doesn’t fit with his view of it. Anyway, welcome to the forum. Maybe we can have a discussion on some other thread in the future.

[Mark de Croix]

Very easy to make claims; much harder to substantiate them. But in doing so it shouldn't lead to vitriol. Life is filled with too much beauty to be sidetracked with anything less. Consider TM whose life of moderation and good sense brought out the best in people. Surely he was one who could separate ideas and personalities in a discussion and keep it even keeled. Never would he resort to distortion to soothe his wounded pride. Watch him the next time for these keys.

[Spagnum]

Right...deflecting it back and accusing me of "vitriol" and "distortion". Perfectly fits the pattern.

Looking over your history, you add no value here. One thread where you had some bizarre conversation with yourself over 27 posts. And several discussions where you’ve started off friendly, phonily complimenting others, but then have derailed them by becoming argumentative on semantics or by challenging people to “prove” their point of view, but then rejecting everything. You accuse them of twisting things around on you or shifting the question, and you often tell people what kind of person they “must” be. In every case, people eventually stopped responding and any further posts by you were just ignored.

So how about this? You’re a pot stirrer, a troublemaker, one of those people who likes to push people’s buttons and start arguments just so you can spout your own imagined (but incorrect) wisdom on all sorts of subjects. I’ll do like others have and ignore any sure-to-come, follow-on nonsense.

[Spagnum]

Don’t waste your time..... Anyway, welcome to the forum. Maybe we can have a discussion on some other thread in the future.

Sorry, I couldn't resist wasting a little bit more of my time. But thank you for the welcome. I hadn't thought of Magnum for years and years, but several months ago found it being shown on some network I wasn't even aware of called Charge! and was like, "Holy crap, Magnum!" and then realized in this day and age, there must be an online forum for it. And yes, there was!

[Pahonu]

Don’t waste your time..... Anyway, welcome to the forum. Maybe we can have a discussion on some other thread in the future.

Sorry, I couldn't resist wasting a little bit more of my time. But thank you for the welcome. I hadn't thought of Magnum for years and years, but several months ago found it being shown on some network I wasn't even aware of called Charge! and was like, "Holy crap, Magnum!" and then realized in this day and age, there must be an online forum for it. And yes, there was!

No need to apologize. I was just pointing out the frustrating pattern of posts that I’ve experienced more than once now. Live and learn, I suppose. However you have described it quite accurately above. Very astute old boy, as Higgins might say. Regardless, I’m glad you found the show again! This is a very knowledgeable and genuinely friendly group of people on the forum, with many members having contributed for well over a decade. Some are location sleuths and others love Hawaii and anything aloha. There are so many aspects to the show that people have commented on, cars, clothes, watches, the military, and many others. I am fascinated with the, sadly now gone estate, hence my forum name. You’ll definitely find something you find interesting.

[Spagnum]

I’m glad you found the show again!

I remember enthusiastically watching syndicated episodes in the afternoons with my freshman roommate in college in the mid 80s, but oddly I have no memory of us ever trying to watch the original weekly evening episodes which were still being produced, or of ever watching the original early episodes while in high school.

This is a very knowledgeable and genuinely friendly group of people on the forum, with many members having contributed for well over a decade. Some are location sleuths and others love Hawaii and anything aloha. There are so many aspects to the show that people have commented on, cars, clothes, watches, the military, and many others. I am fascinated with the, sadly now gone estate, hence my forum name.

Indeed, some of the detailed research and documenting of stuff that people have done is astounding! I wish I had known about the estate, and that you could go SWIM IN THE TIDAL POOL when I visited Hawaii in I think 2000. But like I said, I had kind of completely forgotten about Magnum at that time.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

That's why this guy is best to place on ignore and not bother with. A total waste of time. I've seen some "trolls" in my heyday who could at least be amusing and you knew they were just trying to have some fun. But this guy is just here to argue. His "letter to the admiralty" posts (or whatever they were) that no one bothered replying to made no sense whatsoever (hence no one replied). His smoking weed post? I rest my case, ladies and gentleman. Good day.

[Mark de Croix]

A bit vindictive aren’t we. Backlash to my calling out your racial slurs. Even if those of you who didn’t use racial slurs like Ivan, your silence aided and abetted his racism. [https://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopi ... 99&p=74632] Like a bunch of good ole boy rednecks you join this pile up based on inability to handle critique, resorting to personal attack.

Critique requires we separate ideas from the people who hold them and mutually allow for ideas to be challenged. Being overly sensitive can lead to personal attack, which stifles free exchange of ideas. Perhaps you are ill-equipped to do critique and better fit for small talk rather than discussion.

Regardless, this website being a public forum, it was right of me to challenge racist language. Evidence appears to show a relationship between racism and low intelligence (https://www.psychologicalscience.org/ne ... idity.html). If not for common courtesy, then at least curb your racism in an attempt to boost your intelligence—and perhaps even improve your handling of critique.