Thomas Magnum--wimps out?

[Mark de Croix]

A great scene for film study is found in S3E1 (around 1:09:50) when Magnum confronts an admiral. This scene shows great scriptwriting/direction as well as characterization. A question arises: Is Magnum actually a wimp? Although we don't expect a hero to be absolutely the strongest in the universe, we do expect the hero to have fortitude.

The scene (unfortunately photos cannot be attached so I rely soley on description):

Adm: You don't seem to know much about anything, do you, son?
TM: I know I've been used as a target... And I know I'm not your son,
[3 second pause; camera switches to Admiral, who bristles]
TM: sir.

Obviously this sequence was intentional how TM pauses, the camera switches to the admiral and then back to TM for his sentence final, "sir." Here, TM wimps out but should that be how we view it?

[MikeS]

The scene (unfortunately photos cannot be attached so I rely soley on description):

Hi Mark

Refer to this post, it should help with how to post images on MM -> http://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopic ... 373#p74373

[Mark de Croix]

Thank you, @MikeS, but unfortunately here we cannot directly post things how I am accustomed at other sites. Because the scene involves body language it would have been nice to post photos of it as illustrations. Luckily people can go directly to their copy of the episode if they need to. Thanks again.

[waverly2211]

A great scene for film study is found in S3E1 (around 1:09:50) when Magnum confronts an admiral. This scene shows great scriptwriting/direction as well as characterization. A question arises: Is Magnum actually a wimp? Although we don't expect a hero to be absolutely the strongest in the universe, we do expect the hero to have fortitude.

The scene (unfortunately photos cannot be attached so I rely soley on description):

Adm: You don't seem to know much about anything, do you, son?
TM: I know I've been used as a target... And I know I'm not your son,
[3 second pause; camera switches to Admiral, who bristles]
TM: sir.

Obviously this sequence was intentional how TM pauses, the camera switches to the admiral and then back to TM for his sentence final, "sir." Here, TM wimps out but should that be how we view it?

Nope, Magnum realizes at that moment he has more information than the Navy so no need to push back and have them realize he knows more, or worse yet get tossed in the brig.

[Mark de Croix]

Great point, @waverly2211, TM is an insider to what the Navy is investigating/operating on. He's the clever one and wouldn't want to show his hand. One thing though he's also a civilian so it's unlikely the Navy can put him in detainment. And precisely because he is a civilian he doesn't have to kowtow to anyone even an admiral, which makes his "salute" of "sir" all the more interesting. This could invite the view that this pretty boy is just that--he caves in at the end. If you follow your great point further I think you'll find the answer.

[Mark de Croix]

This case is still unsolved, so all and any takers are welcome to test their sleuthing skill on the TM PI Test. Come right up!

[Mark de Croix]

I guess I'll have to answer my own question. Seemingly TM wimps out but he doesn't care how it might look. He appeases the admiral for strategic reasons--TM suddenly lost his use of Navy intel via his pal Mac, who recently passed away. Without an associate within Naval intelligence, TM will surely have to struggle with some of his cases. It is best that TM stay in the Navy's good graces at least until he can replace somehow the help he was getting from Mac. It wouldn't hurt being on good terms with the admiral for obvious reasons. The bigger question is how will the scriptwriters handle this big gap in the storyline. Mac's intel was a clincher for TM in some cases. We'll see what happens.

[T.Q.]

TM wimps out but should that be how we view it?

NO

[Mark de Croix]

TM wimps out but should that be how we view it?

NO

Agreed and thanks for your post. On the face of it, though, TM does wimp out. Unquestionably he does, but if we look more closely, we see he does so strategically. He had no choice: He just lost his main and only source of Naval intel in Mac. If he humors the admiral, it might pay off later; or at least, it's a start to try to fill this sudden gap of intel. Not necessarily that the admiral would feed intel to TM like Mac, but perhaps through the admiral, TM puts his foot in the door and develops other contacts within the Navy. Moreover, professionally as a PI, he recognizes that he wants to maintain a good relationship with the Navy, for on occasion the Navy might enlist his services.

A member here, I can't remember who, once mentioned how casual viewers of MPI might think it's only a glitzy show, but contrarily it's a show of substance. This little snippet of a scene bears that out I believe. TM's character shines through in how he confronts the admiral, but he honors his Naval officer training by ultimately soothing the ruffled feathers of the admiral. Both actors reflect well nonverbally how such a real situation would play out. Kudos to the scriptwriting and direction for handling so well the implications of Mac's demise for TM.

A question for all the fanatic fans out there: Anyone know why MPI decided to rub out Mac's character at this point? Did the actor find he personally had to leave the show or something like that? Mac is such a brilliant character and foil to TM's that his exit seems a great loss. I know the actual actor returns much later in the series but as a different character. I assume "Mac" does not get a replacement but is permanently cut. Is that so?

[Pahonu]

It was pretty well established in the pilot that TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting. His only contacts would likely be personal friends he still had, and even then, as Mac said, he could get in trouble just talking to TM. Ensign Healy said the same in the pilot. I don’t think Magnum was going to be able to develop a working relationship with any admirals after Mac’s death.

I believe the reason Bellisario wrote Mac out was because he was costarring in the new series Tales of the Gold Monkey, also by Bellisario. When it was canceled after just one season, Jeff McKay was eventually brought back as a different character.

[308GUY]

A question for all the fanatic fans out there: Anyone know why MPI decided to rub out Mac's character at this point? Did the actor find he personally had to leave the show or something like that? Mac is such a brilliant character and foil to TM's that his exit seems a great loss. I know the actual actor returns much later in the series but as a different character. I assume "Mac" does not get a replacement but is permanently cut. Is that so?

http://youtu.be/5HsmOUMARVY?t=210

[Mark de Croix]

A question for all the fanatic fans out there: Anyone know why MPI decided to rub out Mac's character at this point? Did the actor find he personally had to leave the show or something like that? Mac is such a brilliant character and foil to TM's that his exit seems a great loss. I know the actual actor returns much later in the series but as a different character. I assume "Mac" does not get a replacement but is permanently cut. Is that so?

http://youtu.be/5HsmOUMARVY?t=210

Informative. Thanks for the link. Bellisario says that McKay couldn't quite make the shift between his old character and the new one. What does he mean by that? McKay made the shift at least once, having reappeared on the show. Did McKay get a recurring character? Bellisario is quite the puppet master, pulling the strings on his actors. What we learn or can surmise is that Bellisario wanted McKay to do another program or project and so shifted him out of MPI simply by killing off his character. I suppose that McKay really liked doing MPI but was persuaded out it by Bellisario. Ultimately due to the new program's demise, McKay could go back to Bellisario and push to get his old job back. It's a shame because I liked the Mac character. We see Bellisario as quite clever in the arrangement made for the new character and so doing did the actor a favor by casting the two characters as opposites.

[Mark de Croix]

It was pretty well established in the pilot that TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting. His only contacts would likely be personal friends he still had, and even then, as Mac said, he could get in trouble just talking to TM. Ensign Healy said the same in the pilot. I don’t think Magnum was going to be able to develop a working relationship with any admirals after Mac’s death.

I believe the reason Bellisario wrote Mac out was because he was costarring in the new series Tales of the Gold Monkey, also by Bellisario. When it was canceled after just one season, Jeff McKay was eventually brought back as a different character.

"persona non grata" ... for quitting? Prove it. It's just as likely not just the Navy brass but base security guards are sensitive to civilians trespassing.

[Pahonu]

It was pretty well established in the pilot that TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting. His only contacts would likely be personal friends he still had, and even then, as Mac said, he could get in trouble just talking to TM. Ensign Healy said the same in the pilot. I don’t think Magnum was going to be able to develop a working relationship with any admirals after Mac’s death.

I believe the reason Bellisario wrote Mac out was because he was costarring in the new series Tales of the Gold Monkey, also by Bellisario. When it was canceled after just one season, Jeff McKay was eventually brought back as a different character.

"persona non grata" ... for quitting? Prove it. It's just as likely not just the Navy brass but base security guards are sensitive to civilians trespassing.

Rewatch the pilot and the early Mac episodes and the dialogue shows this. In the pilot Cooley says he remembers fondly when TM resigned. Ensign Healy says he can get in trouble just talking to him. In other episodes Mac has to help him secretly and talks about getting in trouble. He certainly shouldn’t be on the base getting classified information from the Navy after his resignation. It sure didn’t seem like an amicable parting of ways to me. I also can’t imagine an admiral willing to risk his career by providing information to a former intelligence officer who is no longer serving.

This type of relationship is often depicted in pi shows with the police. The PI is typically a former officer and uses old contacts to get information but it’s not legal and leadership would never approve. It’s also not very realistic, I believe, as officers can certainly get in trouble for revealing evidence in an on-going case. I think the Navy intelligence aspect in MPI only heightens that dynamic to a national security level.

Edit:

Here’s the Cooley dialogue.

Captain J. Cooly, USN: You know, Magnum,
one of my fondest memories will always be
the day you resigned your commission.
Watching the Shore Patrol toss your butt off
this station is gonna be another.

[Mark de Croix]

Proves nothing. TM became a civilian and is treated as one. Moreover, he probably committed multiple crimes breaking into the base and military property. If he was so detested by top brass as you say, then he would be still in prison today. He even gets promoted by the top brass of all, Commander-in-Chief and intends or actualizes reinstatement into the Navy as Commander, things that never would happen if he was detested for merely resigning from the Navy as you say.

You stated, "It was pretty well established in the pilot that TM was persona non grata with the Navy brass for quitting." OED: persona non grata: unwelcome. Of course because he is a civilian. Quitting has nothing to do with it. He severed relations with the Navy. He cut his membership. You think any former serviceperson can just stroll on military bases as they feel? No, absolutely not. Trespassing is a crime. If Top Brass really detested him, it would be that he is a pesky trespasser. He is unwelcome because he is a civilian, plain and simple.