The Robin Masters Estate (Pahonu)

[KENJI]

I haven't had time to read the whole article in detail, just a quick skim so I could be way off, but I wonder if we've found a possible reason why the boathouse is still in limbo.
The article states Marty wants to expand the wall and go up with it in one area to protect the structures behind it which I'm assuming is behind the boathouse as that is the area where there is a "hole" in the wall and the lowest section of the wall. Maybe Marty wants to save the boathouse, but not until he has secured/strengthened the wall etc. which makes sense (why fix the ceiling if the roof is still leaking) OR he has no intention of saving the boathouse, but he is just using that structure as a pawn to argue his "hardship". Assuming he gets his way with the wall, the boathouse might be removed as it possibly served its purpose in the grand scheme of things.....who knows. If he does remove it, it's gone forever and he can't build that close to the ocean again, but it might be a fair trade off if the wall gets done in some form. I don't agree with expanding the wall outwards, but going up on top of the existing wall or just behind it I can see.

Another quick point........I know the wall is a huge issue with loss of sand etc., but I wonder if there was ever a study done on the effects of the tidal pool wall on sand loss etc.. Sure it won't be the same as the wall right up against the actual land, but it must have some effect. It would be interesting to know as it might strengthen Marty's case a bit. There is no way that wall is coming down, but some would like to see Marty's wall come down.......could be a bit of a double standard......again, I've just skimmed the article and might be missing something....I'll go in for another read on the weekend. Thanks for posting the article guys!

[Pahonu]

I haven't had time to read the whole article in detail, just a quick skim so I could be way off, but I wonder if we've found a possible reason why the boathouse is still in limbo.
The article states Marty wants to expand the wall and go up with it in one area to protect the structures behind it which I'm assuming is behind the boathouse as that is the area where there is a "hole" in the wall and the lowest section of the wall. Maybe Marty wants to save the boathouse, but not until he has secured/strengthened the wall etc. which makes sense (why fix the ceiling if the roof is still leaking) OR he has no intention of saving the boathouse, but he is just using that structure as a pawn to argue his "hardship". Assuming he gets his way with the wall, the boathouse might be removed as it possibly served its purpose in the grand scheme of things.....who knows. If he does remove it, it's gone forever and he can't build that close to the ocean again, but it might be a fair trade off if the wall gets done in some form. I don't agree with expanding the wall outwards, but going up on top of the existing wall or just behind it I can see.

Another quick point........I know the wall is a huge issue with loss of sand etc., but I wonder if there was ever a study done on the effects of the tidal pool wall on sand loss etc.. Sure it won't be the same as the wall right up against the actual land, but it must have some effect. It would be interesting to know as it might strengthen Marty's case a bit. There is no way that wall is coming down, but some would like to see Marty's wall come down.......could be a bit of a double standard......again, I've just skimmed the article and might be missing something....I'll go in for another read on the weekend. Thanks for posting the article guys!

Hey Kenji,

I think you’re exactly right about not fixing the boathouse until the sea wall is improved. Once fixed up, it could still have value on the property because of its location... IF it can be protected. I suppose it could be part of a deal to get the sea wall improvements approved by removing it in exchange. It’s legally allowed to remain but then so are the sea walls, now. The new homes are built back further and higher in anticipation of rising sea level, so they’re not really at risk. They also went through the process of an almost 400 page environmental study about the sea walls. I guess we’ll have to wait and see on that one.

Funny you bringing up the tidal pool walls and sand erosion. I just mentioned it in another thread this morning. They definitely impact any wave action from replenishing sand and, as sea level rise accelerates, the beach which then has less sand replenishment is buried.

[K Hale]

Does anyone know how high the sand is on the outside of the tidal pool versus on the inside? I have been inside the tidal pool, but never outside of it at the back. I would expect the sand would be higher out there?

[Pahonu]

Does anyone know how high the sand is on the outside of the tidal pool versus on the inside? I have been inside the tidal pool, but never outside of it at the back. I would expect the sand would be higher out there?

Great question! I have no idea.

[Amian]

That is a thorough article, and it seems like there is a lot more that will be revealed in the coming years. (I accessed the article through the Honolulu Star Advertiser's site... the pictures and drone video were nice to see.)

I was thinking about the tidal pools, too. I would think they have minimal impact on the beach because they don't stop the tide from running up onto the land. The wall does prevent that, so the erosion doesn't take place as it should. Even if the tidal pool slows down the rate of erosion, the beach itself should maintain its depth.

[Pahonu]

That is a thorough article, and it seems like there is a lot more that will be revealed in the coming years. (I accessed the article through the Honolulu Star Advertiser's site... the pictures and drone video were nice to see.)

I was thinking about the tidal pools, too. I would think they have minimal impact on the beach because they don't stop the tide from running up onto the land. The wall does prevent that, so the erosion doesn't take place as it should. Even if the tidal pool slows down the rate of erosion, the beach itself should maintain its depth.

What you really should look at regarding beach erosion is the sea wall study done for the permit request to modify them. It has pages about the topic. It runs some 300+ pages but covers many different aspects of the sea walls impact.

http://oeqc2.doh.hawaii.gov/Doc_Library ... Repair.pdf

The problem at that location in particular is the rising tide itself. That beach is a low energy wave zone because of its geographic location. That’s why it was so stable for so long, very minimal wave energy that didn’t cause large scale sand movement. The tidal pool walls actually slowed even further what low wave activity there was from depositing much sand on the beach. That was less critical at lower tide levels. As the high tides have increased over the decades, the erosion of sand by them is overtaking the replenishment by wave action. There are lots of other factors but that’s a basic description of what’s happening. Add to that the problem of the sea walls preventing sand from being deposited further inland so sand remains suspended in the water and flows back out with the tides. Remember, sea walls, jetties, groins, etc... only limit wind-driven wave action. The tides flow right around and over them. All this equals a disappearing beach.

[Amian]

The problem at that location in particular is the rising tide itself. That beach is a low energy wave zone because of its geographic location. That’s why it was so stable for so long, very minimal wave energy that didn’t cause large scale sand movement. The tidal pool walls actually slowed even further what low wave activity there was from depositing much sand on the beach. That was less critical at lower tide levels. As the high tides have increased over the decades, the erosion of sand by them is overtaking the replenishment by wave action.

Pahonu, thanks for that explanation. I was thinking of the tidal pools as less damaging to the beach than the seawall because the pools slow down the activity of sand replenishment, but they don't draw a hard line in the sand (ha ha) like a seawall does.

Regardless, it is disappointing to see the beach disappearing. I visited Oahu and summer 2019 and made my first trek to the Estate, but sure enough, high tide made the beach inaccessible. I could have swum, but I had my kids (4 and 7 at the time) who I wanted to show the beach to, so we just looked from afar.

Beyond visitors like me who want to see MPI locations, obviously the much bigger issue is for locals. I saw a study showing anticipated sea level rise for Oahu, and it doesn't look to me like seawalls are going to do much good in the coming decades. And if they do hold off higher seas, you'll end up with an island that has no beaches. That feels antithetical to the culture of Hawaii.

[Pahonu]

The problem at that location in particular is the rising tide itself. That beach is a low energy wave zone because of its geographic location. That’s why it was so stable for so long, very minimal wave energy that didn’t cause large scale sand movement. The tidal pool walls actually slowed even further what low wave activity there was from depositing much sand on the beach. That was less critical at lower tide levels. As the high tides have increased over the decades, the erosion of sand by them is overtaking the replenishment by wave action.

Beyond visitors like me who want to see MPI locations, obviously the much bigger issue is for locals. I saw a study showing anticipated sea level rise for Oahu, and it doesn't look to me like seawalls are going to do much good in the coming decades. And if they do hold off higher seas, you'll end up with an island that has no beaches. That feels antithetical to the culture of Hawaii.

I absolutely agree. The sea walls can stop the rising tides for only so long, particularly the current ones at Pahonu. This is why Marty Nesbit has applied for permits to raise the lower walls and reinforce the rest. It will come at the expense of having a sandy beach, no doubt, but he is trying to insure against losing large parts of the property in the future.

[Pahonu]

I just wanted to repost the links to my SketchUp model and floor plans of Pahonu. A forum member messaged me that the old links didn't work. Remember you need to download SketchUp if you want to view them.

3D Model
https://www.dropbox.com/preview/Public/ ... e=personal

Floor Plans
https://www.dropbox.com/preview/Public/ ... e=personal

[9NExtUpT]

Does DropBox now require an account for visitors to access those? (I've not use it for so long, I don't remember if that's how it's always been or what.)

I just wanted to repost the links to my SketchUp model and floor plans of Pahonu. A forum member messaged me that the old links didn't work. Remember you need to download SketchUp if you want to view them.

3D Model
https://www.dropbox.com/preview/Public/ ... e=personal

Floor Plans
https://www.dropbox.com/preview/Public/ ... e=personal

[Pahonu]

Does DropBox now require an account for visitors to access those? (I've not use it for so long, I don't remember if that's how it's always been or what.)

I just wanted to repost the links to my SketchUp model and floor plans of Pahonu. A forum member messaged me that the old links didn't work. Remember you need to download SketchUp if you want to view them.

3D Model
https://www.dropbox.com/preview/Public/ ... e=personal

Floor Plans
https://www.dropbox.com/preview/Public/ ... e=personal

I’m not certain of that but I reloaded them into the public view section and posted the new web addresses above. I was able to download both of them from there and open them separately. I suppose the answer might be yes.

[nha trang]

I'm not good at this kind of thing but the links didn't work for me, not sure if it has to do with this:

https://help.dropbox.com/files-folders/ ... lic-folder

Nha Trang

[Pahonu]

I'm not good at this kind of thing but the links didn't work for me, not sure if it has to do with this:

https://help.dropbox.com/files-folders/ ... lic-folder

Nha Trang

Thanks for that. I’ll see what I can figure out. Sorry everybody.

[nha trang]

Pahonu,

Please, no need to apologize!

I finally got around to downloading sketchup and having a look at your model and wow, that is really something!

Thanks for making that for us buddy!

Nha Trang

[Pahonu]

This is what I did when I created the new links above. I followed the instructions in the link below.

https://ibb.co/5Kx450f

Not sure what else to do?