.45ACP or 9mm or BOTH?

[N1095A]

Ah, the Mozambique pattern from "Mad Buck Gibson". Always sounded like hogwash to me. By the way, did anyone ever notice the sound of TM's gun firing sounds nothing like any .45 or 9mm? It's always much louder and deeper sounding than any handgun I've ever heard firing.

[MaximRecoil]

Good catches MaximRecoil, I always thought it was weird how certain things like the thumb sfety changed.

My guess is that they were trying to make it look more like a military M1911A1.

Some of the time the gun had well-worn grips too; the checkering was worn nearly smooth in parts. My guess is that those were original military M1911A1 grips (made sometime between 1926 and 1941, before the military switched to plastic grips). In the pilot episode (and probably other episodes), the grips looked new though, sharp checkering throughout.

In some episodes the trigger was blued, and in other episodes it was nickel-plated. Both types of triggers were available on Series 70 CGMs.

Those are the three variables that I've noticed on the gun throughout the series.

The fundamentals remains constant however. It is always a Series 70 CGM with the standard Colt "polished flats/matte radiuses" blued finish, chambered for 9mm.

BTW, as far as CGMs chambered for .45 ACP go, a pre- or post-"enhanced" Series 80 looks the most like Magnum's gun, because they come with the lowered ejection port from the factory. Series 70 .45 CGMs had the standard M1911/M1911A1-style ejection port, but Series 70 9mm CGMs like Magnum's had a lowered ejection port. With the Series 80, Colt gave all calibers of CGMs the lowered ejection port treatment:

[only looking]

Ah, the Mozambique pattern from "Mad Buck Gibson". Always sounded like hogwash to me. By the way, did anyone ever notice the sound of TM's gun firing sounds nothing like any .45 or 9mm I've ever heard. It's always much louder and deeper sounding than any handgun I've ever heard firing.

Yes that would be the pattern N1095A. Good to see you on here. I always thought the 45 sounds were a little BEEFED UP at times. I persoanlly didn't like how the blue on the 45's changed when they went to the 80's. I use to have a Smith & Wesson Model 29 44 MAG (Dirty Harry style..lol) and now they are redoing them and the blue on them looks like crap. I don't know why they can't match original stuff with this HERITAGE line they're doing, I own a Smith & Wesson model 17 (The old hand ejectors like in Raiders of the lost Ark) and the blue on them was almost black. The series 70 has this blue/pearl look to it that I really like. They are aslo GREAT shooters and well built, alot of competition shooters have taken old 70's and converted them with upgrades.

[MaximRecoil]

I persoanlly didn't like how the blue on the 45's changed when they went to the 80's. I use to have a Smith & Wesson Model 29 44 MAG (Dirty Harry style..lol) and now they are redoing them and the blue on them looks like crap. I don't know why they can't match original stuff with this HERITAGE line they're doing, I own a Smith & Wesson model 17 (The old hand ejectors like in Raiders of the lost Ark) and the blue on them was almost black. The series 70 has this blue/pearl look to it that I really like. They are aslo GREAT shooters and well built, alot of competition shooters have taken old 70's and converted them with upgrades.

I think the nicest Colts in terms of fit and finish came out of the '50s and '60s. For example, this mint 1952 CGM .38 Super is simply amazing:



Sometimes the manufacturers don't have the capability anymore to blue like they did years ago. For example, when Colt reissued the military M1911 a few years ago, they had to send the guns out to a specialty shop for "carbona" bluing because they no longer had the capability to do it themselves. Something similar may be the case with Smith & Wesson too (or maybe they're just being cheap).

[only looking]

Yes that's a nice look on those older 45s. I think back in the day everything was about QUALITY and CRAFTMENSHIP, but today you have to pay extra for what you use to get for free. Also alot of gun makers rely on their names too much, I've seen alot of so called HI-QUALITY guns have to go back to the manufacturer because of some flaw, small stuff that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Funny when you pick up an old Walther or other..they're ALOT heavier due to their being all steel..which made them last ALOT longer.

[Higgy_baby]

... but they may have had multiple guns (one or more with the half-shelf thumb safety and one or more with the stock full-shelf safety) and used them randomly throughout the series:

I agree that there were multiple guns that were in fact used in sequencial scenes creating continuity errors (just like TCs chopper with the changing configurations). I think this adds to the confusion that some of us had that they were alternating between .45 and 9mm pieces on the show. At some points I am positive I see a military like finish on the handgun and in the next shot I see a deep blackish blue that looks very 'commercial' in finish. Since your analysis proves they are all commercial, it is likely variations of the 9mm as shown in some of the pics you have posted.

I'll try to dig up some screenshots in sequence from the series to show what I mean.

[MaximRecoil]

I agree that there were multiple guns that were in fact used in sequencial scenes creating continuity errors (just like TCs chopper with the changing configurations). I think this adds to the confusion that some of us had that they were alternating between .45 and 9mm pieces on the show. At some points I am positive I see a military like finish on the handgun and in the next shot I see a deep blackish blue that looks very 'commercial' in finish. Since your analysis proves they are all commercial, it is likely variations of the 9mm as shown in some of the pics you have posted.

I'll try to dig up some screenshots in sequence from the series to show what I mean.

I just came across a scene that I'd forgotten about (I remember taking note of it when I first saw it), in Italian Ice (season 2). It shows an actual .45. However, Magnum is never shown actually holding it.

It is the scene out on the balcony where Magnum has the Sicilian at gunpoint (the prop is the usual 9mm Colt Government Model), and the thug sneaks up behind him and knocks it out of his hand. They show a shot of the gun laying on the floor and the Sicilian grabs it.



That gun is a very old (WWII era or earlier, judging by its wide-spur hammer) Colt Government Model .45 ACP with much of the bluing worn off, along with some patina. It has a standard (not lowered) ejection port and a large bore. The reason I believe it is a CGM rather than a military contract M1911A1 is because it doesn't have a lanyard loop.

It looks nothing like Magnum's gun, mainly because the finish is so worn and Magnum's gun is always in nearly new condition; but also because of its standard ejection port, wide-spur hammer, and blued chamber hood.

No one is shown using that gun, with the exception of the disembodied hand that grabs it. When they cut to the Sicilian holding it, it is the usual 9mm CGM prop. Here is the shot of Magnum taking it back from him moments later:



That is the usual 9mm CGM prop.

I wonder what the story behind that is. Selleck walked into the scene holding his usual 9mm CGM prop. It got knocked out of his hand and he tussled with the guy that knocked it out of his hand. They then showed a shot of some beat up, well-worn relic of a .45 that was ~40 years old at the time, laying on the floor, and a hand grabbing it. Then it was back to the normal 9mm CGM prop when they cut to the Sicilian holding it.

[J.J. Walters]

I wonder what the story behind that is. Selleck walked into the scene holding his usual 9mm CGM prop. It got knocked out of his hand and he tussled with the guy that knocked it out of his hand. They then showed a shot of some beat up, well-worn relic of a .45 that was ~40 years old at the time, laying on the floor, and a hand grabbing it. Then it was back to the normal 9mm CGM prop when they cut to the Sicilian holding it.

VERY interesting!

The closeup of the old .45 was probably done by a second unit team, a different team that shot the scene on the balcony. Maybe this was the only gun they had available?

[MaximRecoil]

VERY interesting!

The closeup of the old .45 was probably done by a second unit team, a different team that shot the scene on the balcony. Maybe this was the only gun they had available?

Yes, I was thinking something along the same lines. I think it may have been a case similar to when they show a closeup of someone holding something, like a document or picture, and the hands clearly belong to someone other than the actor who is supposed to be holding the item. I saw an example of that in an episode I watched the other day, I think it was Flashback (season 3). The main actress in the scene was an older woman with long red nails, and whoever was holding the document for the closeup shot had very short red nails and younger looking skin. I've seen plenty of other examples of that in Magnum PI too, as well as in plenty of other TV shows and movies.

I read somewhere once that the reason this happens is that these "insert scenes" (I think that is what they called them) were sometimes shot at a different time than the main scenes, when the correct actors were not readily available, so they would use anyone who was "close enough" ("stunt hands" so to speak, lol).

[Tidewater]

am i completely off base here, but wasn't there an episode or two where Magnum carried a Browning Hi Power also? maybe i have jumbled some other show's scenes in my head with Magnum? being JMB designs both of them, i could have just dreamed it also.......? thanks, joe

[MaximRecoil]

am i completely off base here, but wasn't there an episode or two where Magnum carried a Browning Hi Power also? maybe i have jumbled some other show's scenes in my head with Magnum? being JMB designs both of them, i could have just dreamed it also.......? thanks, joe

I don't recall ever seeing Selleck carry a Hi-Power as a stand-in for the Colt Government Model.

I do remember seeing a screenshot on Google Images (not so great image quality, plus the gun was out of focus) where the gun kind of looked like a Hi-Power:



But when I watched the episode that the screenshot came from (the ending of Did You See the Sunrise?) on DVD and got a good look at the gun, it was not a Hi-Power (it was his usual CGM).

If you have any screenshots (or know of any episodes) showing him with a Hi-Power; that would be very interesting to see.

This reminds me; the box cover for Beverly Hills Cop shows Murphy holding a 1911-type gun; a left-handed one no less. It was probably a reversed image or a photorealistic airbrush painting; though there was a company that made left-handed 1911s (Randall). Given that he's holding it in his left hand, I'm going with a reversed image (I'm pretty sure Murphy is right-handed). Murphy used a Hi-Power in the actual movie though.

[only looking]

There was an episode where Magnum uses a Beretta (one he picls up) when he goes after the assassain who's dressed as a nunn. That's about it..at least right off hand.

[MaximRecoil]

There was an episode where Magnum uses a Beretta (one he picls up) when he goes after the assassain who's dressed as a nunn. That's about it..at least right off hand.

In Ghost Writer (season 2) he uses a revolver that he picked up. There are probably other examples of that sort of thing too.