Who was Thomas closer to - T.C. or Rick?

[Mark de Croix]

News Flash: In "Texas Lightning" (S2.17), another example of TC appearing to have a closer relation with TM than does Rick. On the beach scene between TC and Rick about TM’s fate, TC looks much more worried than Rick does. TC paces back and forth with crinkled forehead while Rick, like almost child-like makes wishful statements about TM’s fate. In other words, if possible TC has a deeper concern than Rick, which suggests TC has a closer relation with TM than does Rick.

[Gorilla Mask]

A very interesting debate, but I wonder in what proportion and with what attention to detail here the scriptwriters have integrated these subtleties (very appreciable by the way) in the evolution of the scenarios.

I'm not sure they really pursued this voluntarily and to that extent.

There is also the factor of the acting of each actor, which also depends on the interpersonal relationships (even between actors) and the personality of each.

If I were to speculate, I would say that TC is probably more straightforward and direct than Rick, who, let's not forget, has a troubled past and probably less honest. The relationship between TM and TC seems simpler and more 'passionate' whereas with Rick, TM has to deal with the cloak of dissimulation and 'backroom' that surrounds Orville's character.

[Mark de Croix]

A very interesting debate, but I wonder in what proportion and with what attention to detail here the scriptwriters have integrated these subtleties (very appreciable by the way) in the evolution of the scenarios.

I'm not sure they really pursued this voluntarily and to that extent.

There is also the factor of the acting of each actor, which also depends on the interpersonal relationships (even between actors) and the personality of each.

If I were to speculate, I would say that TC is probably more straightforward and direct than Rick, who, let's not forget, has a troubled past and probably less honest. The relationship between TM and TC seems simpler and more 'passionate' whereas with Rick, TM has to deal with the cloak of dissimulation and 'backroom' that surrounds Orville's character.

GM you raise an important issue but one that wasn't lost on me. Let me point out that if the genre is about everyday life not SF or fantasy, wouldn't you agree that the closer the drama to real life the better? Generally real life follows an important principle identified by Freud: (human) behavior is caused. It's not random even though some people might try to convince you that their rude behavior was just a joke. Some people who engage in passive aggression do not realize they have unconscious motives for their ill behavior. The idea of behavior is caused underlies almost all discussions here about MPI. For example some people wonder about the logic of a plot or character actions while others point out the production mistakes made (e.g., TM's black eye shifts from left eye to right eye mistakenly).

Thus when actors perform not according to the script or expectation they are said to act out of character. The more professional or skilled the actor the more he/she will ignore the personal relations with other actors in the production. Presumably the scriptwriters try to write the stories consistent with human logic. The more consistent they are in this regard, the more the story becomes real to the audience, making the production more successful. Even the so-called dramatic turn will usually have a basis in logic. So given the premise that we all are viewing the everyday drama as a lens to real life and vice-versa, it is quite reasonable to wonder and expect that different associates of TM will vary in the degree of mutual intimacy shared--and that the episodes will be consistent in this regard.

[Gorilla Mask]

A very interesting debate, but I wonder in what proportion and with what attention to detail here the scriptwriters have integrated these subtleties (very appreciable by the way) in the evolution of the scenarios.

I'm not sure they really pursued this voluntarily and to that extent.

There is also the factor of the acting of each actor, which also depends on the interpersonal relationships (even between actors) and the personality of each.

If I were to speculate, I would say that TC is probably more straightforward and direct than Rick, who, let's not forget, has a troubled past and probably less honest. The relationship between TM and TC seems simpler and more 'passionate' whereas with Rick, TM has to deal with the cloak of dissimulation and 'backroom' that surrounds Orville's character.

GM you raise an important issue but one that wasn't lost on me. Let me point out that if the genre is about everyday life not SF or fantasy, wouldn't you agree that the closer the drama to real life the better? Generally real life follows an important principle identified by Freud: (human) behavior is caused. It's not random even though some people might try to convince you that their rude behavior was just a joke. Some people who engage in passive aggression do not realize they have unconscious motives for their ill behavior. The idea of behavior is caused underlies almost all discussions here about MPI. For example some people wonder about the logic of a plot or character actions while others point out the production mistakes made (e.g., TM's black eye shifts from left eye to right eye mistakenly).

Thus when actors perform not according to the script or expectation they are said to act out of character. The more professional or skilled the actor the more he/she will ignore the personal relations with other actors in the production. Presumably the scriptwriters try to write the stories consistent with human logic. The more consistent they are in this regard, the more the story becomes real to the audience, making the production more successful. Even the so-called dramatic turn will usually have a basis in logic. So given the premise that we all are viewing the everyday drama as a lens to real life and vice-versa, it is quite reasonable to wonder and expect that different associates of TM will vary in the degree of mutual intimacy shared--and that the episodes will be consistent in this regard.

Hey Mark, maybe I misspoke, my apologies.

If I understand your answer correctly, my intention was not at all to question the purpose of this topic: to project oneself into a fiction as if it were the 'caused' reality.

If you pay attention, my previous message was in two parts:
The first one is about my questioning about the intentions of the scriptwriters in order to make their fiction the most faithful representation of a reality. The second one was to get into the game: assuming that the show is a reality, what would be the motivations, affinities, preferences of the characters in their behavior and why?

I agree with you and Freud ... The human mind (and a fortiori those of the actors) is not governed by randomness, my intention was simply to ask myself how far in the script of the MPI episodes this aim for differentiation in interpersonal relationships was a concern.

[Mark de Croix]

A very interesting debate, but I wonder in what proportion and with what attention to detail here the scriptwriters have integrated these subtleties (very appreciable by the way) in the evolution of the scenarios.

I'm not sure they really pursued this voluntarily and to that extent.

There is also the factor of the acting of each actor, which also depends on the interpersonal relationships (even between actors) and the personality of each.

If I were to speculate, I would say that TC is probably more straightforward and direct than Rick, who, let's not forget, has a troubled past and probably less honest. The relationship between TM and TC seems simpler and more 'passionate' whereas with Rick, TM has to deal with the cloak of dissimulation and 'backroom' that surrounds Orville's character.

GM you raise an important issue but one that wasn't lost on me. Let me point out that if the genre is about everyday life not SF or fantasy, wouldn't you agree that the closer the drama to real life the better? Generally real life follows an important principle identified by Freud: (human) behavior is caused. It's not random even though some people might try to convince you that their rude behavior was just a joke. Some people who engage in passive aggression do not realize they have unconscious motives for their ill behavior. The idea of behavior is caused underlies almost all discussions here about MPI. For example some people wonder about the logic of a plot or character actions while others point out the production mistakes made (e.g., TM's black eye shifts from left eye to right eye mistakenly).

Thus when actors perform not according to the script or expectation they are said to act out of character. The more professional or skilled the actor the more he/she will ignore the personal relations with other actors in the production. Presumably the scriptwriters try to write the stories consistent with human logic. The more consistent they are in this regard, the more the story becomes real to the audience, making the production more successful. Even the so-called dramatic turn will usually have a basis in logic. So given the premise that we all are viewing the everyday drama as a lens to real life and vice-versa, it is quite reasonable to wonder and expect that different associates of TM will vary in the degree of mutual intimacy shared--and that the episodes will be consistent in this regard.

Hey Mark, maybe I misspoke, my apologies.

If I understand your answer correctly, my intention was not at all to question the purpose of this topic: to project oneself into a fiction as if it were the 'caused' reality.

If you pay attention, my previous message was in two parts:
The first one is about my questioning about the intentions of the scriptwriters in order to make their fiction the most faithful representation of a reality. The second one was to get into the game: assuming that the show is a reality, what would be the motivations, affinities, preferences of the characters in their behavior and why?

I agree with you and Freud ... The human mind (and a fortiori those of the actors) is not governed by randomness, my intention was simply to ask myself how far in the script of the MPI episodes this aim for differentiation in interpersonal relationships was a concern.

GM as always you are well spoken. I don't know how you do it. Maybe in your boyhood in France watching MPI, your brain totally absorbed the dialogues each week, ending up as eloquent a speaker as TS. I see we are well aligned and so I went back and read your earlier post. Shazaam, it's nicely written and meaning quite clear. Another fascination for me: Words are like a chameleon; they can change meaning according to their environment. My interpretation was my own doing, excuse me. I see now your words can be taken on either side of the discussion. Politicians would love to craft their words so nicely (though not your intent of course). My take simply continued the thread previously, so excuse me for missing your drift. Thanks for clarifying it.

GM you have an interesting view about the relations between TM, TC & Rick. You hit a bullseye about TC & Rick differing personality-wise. TC tells ya the way he sees it. In that way he is trustworthy because you know where he stands. Rick on the other hand has some baggage; he seems to be a schemer. He can be a smooth talker, so that rightly or wrongly raises suspicion in us. As attractive as Rick is--he is handsome and fun loving--TC is more reliable. He is more durable too. So you're gonna pick TC ten times out ten for your side in a knife fight. Also he is fairly good at basketball, which is TM/TS's main sport. (The two of them displayed their respective skill in an MPI episode!) The two of them together would be formidable in any Two-on-Two Tournament. (TS was a true star in the sport in his time.) Tremendous bonding there for two males via basketball and knife fights. Rick then is just a tag along for those two categories and earns his way by being crafty in the social world. Thus he is a manager for a five star club/restaurant. So based on this personality view we must conclude that TC is tighter with TM than what Rick is.

[Gorilla Mask]

GM as always you are well spoken. I don't know how you do it. Maybe in your boyhood in France watching MPI, your brain totally absorbed the dialogues each week, ending up as eloquent a speaker as TS. I see we are well aligned and so I went back and read your earlier post. Shazaam, it's nicely written and meaning quite clear. Another fascination for me: Words are like a chameleon; they can change meaning according to their environment. My interpretation was my own doing, excuse me. I see now your words can be taken on either side of the discussion. Politicians would love to craft their words so nicely (though not your intent of course). My take simply continued the thread previously, so excuse me for missing your drift. Thanks for clarifying it.

GM you have an interesting view about the relations between TM, TC & Rick. You hit a bullseye about TC & Rick differing personality-wise. TC tells ya the way he sees it. In that way he is trustworthy because you know where he stands. Rick on the other hand has some baggage; he seems to be a schemer. He can be a smooth talker, so that rightly or wrongly raises suspicion in us. As attractive as Rick is--he is handsome and fun loving--TC is more reliable. He is more durable too. So you're gonna pick TC ten times out ten for your side in a knife fight. Also he is fairly good at basketball, which is TM/TS's main sport. (The two of them displayed their respective skill in an MPI episode!) The two of them together would be formidable in any Two-on-Two Tournament. (TS was a true star in the sport in his time.) Tremendous bonding there for two males via basketball and knife fights. Rick then is just a tag along for those two categories and earns his way by being crafty in the social world. Thus he is a manager for a five star club/restaurant. So based on this personality view we must conclude that TC is tighter with TM than what Rick is.

Thanks again Mark for your appreciation!

On your side, I also note a very elegant pen!

In my profession sentence construction and exegetical logic is second nature, but I am certainly not a perfect reference, others are!

You are right: indeed, the voice-over in Magnum has always been very inspiring for me. This is especially the case with the very good quality of the French dubbing (I was 7-9 years old when I watched MPI). On this forum, some people paid tribute to Francis Lax who was the voice of Magnum in France and whose elegance contributed to its fame in our country.

To come back to the proximity between TM-TC and TM-Rick, if I had a point of view to formulate 'as if it was real life', I would say that the bond of brotherhood is certainly more visible between TM and TC. However, Rick's more complex personality does not mean that TM likes him less as a friend. The fact that these friendships are less visible and less explicit does not mean that they are less deep. Perhaps they are expressing just differently? Rick is probably more withdrawn and solitary, a bit the image he gives in "The woman on the Beach" or later in "The People vs. Orville Wright".

Another set of relationships that could be studied is the one between Higgins and TC and Rick. at the beginning of the series Higgins tends to treat Rick as an insubordinate attendant. As the series progresses, a certain closeness develops between them. Perhaps because they are both managers?

But that's another topic, sorry.

[Mark de Croix]

GM as always you are well spoken. I don't know how you do it. Maybe in your boyhood in France watching MPI, your brain totally absorbed the dialogues each week, ending up as eloquent a speaker as TS. I see we are well aligned and so I went back and read your earlier post. Shazaam, it's nicely written and meaning quite clear. Another fascination for me: Words are like a chameleon; they can change meaning according to their environment. My interpretation was my own doing, excuse me. I see now your words can be taken on either side of the discussion. Politicians would love to craft their words so nicely (though not your intent of course). My take simply continued the thread previously, so excuse me for missing your drift. Thanks for clarifying it.

GM you have an interesting view about the relations between TM, TC & Rick. You hit a bullseye about TC & Rick differing personality-wise. TC tells ya the way he sees it. In that way he is trustworthy because you know where he stands. Rick on the other hand has some baggage; he seems to be a schemer. He can be a smooth talker, so that rightly or wrongly raises suspicion in us. As attractive as Rick is--he is handsome and fun loving--TC is more reliable. He is more durable too. So you're gonna pick TC ten times out ten for your side in a knife fight. Also he is fairly good at basketball, which is TM/TS's main sport. (The two of them displayed their respective skill in an MPI episode!) The two of them together would be formidable in any Two-on-Two Tournament. (TS was a true star in the sport in his time.) Tremendous bonding there for two males via basketball and knife fights. Rick then is just a tag along for those two categories and earns his way by being crafty in the social world. Thus he is a manager for a five star club/restaurant. So based on this personality view we must conclude that TC is tighter with TM than what Rick is.

Thanks again Mark for your appreciation!

On your side, I also note a very elegant pen!

In my profession sentence construction and exegetical logic is second nature, but I am certainly not a perfect reference, others are!

You are right: indeed, the voice-over in Magnum has always been very inspiring for me. This is especially the case with the very good quality of the French dubbing (I was 7-9 years old when I watched MPI). On this forum, some people paid tribute to Francis Lax who was the voice of Magnum in France and whose elegance contributed to its fame in our country.

To come back to the proximity between TM-TC and TM-Rick, if I had a point of view to formulate 'as if it was real life', I would say that the bond of brotherhood is certainly more visible between TM and TC. However, Rick's more complex personality does not mean that TM likes him less as a friend. The fact that these friendships are less visible and less explicit does not mean that they are less deep. Perhaps they are expressing just differently? Rick is probably more withdrawn and solitary, a bit the image he gives in "The woman on the Beach" or later in "The People vs. Orville Wright".

Another set of relationships that could be studied is the one between Higgins and TC and Rick. at the beginning of the series Higgins tends to treat Rick as an insubordinate attendant. As the series progresses, a certain closeness develops between them. Perhaps because they are both managers?

But that's another topic, sorry.

Though we agree much about our views on MPI, I think we might differ about that of TM & Rick. So let me approach this from another angle. Research exists that tells us the genders differ how they make friends at least in childhood. Girls do it through social talk; boys, action play.

Using that as a lens, TM and TC share so so much based on sports and all those helicopter trips together that their relation is likely deeper than that between TM & Rick. The physical activities shared reinforce the relationship so typical in male bonding. Rick has less opportunity do so either by choice or circumstance.

TM chose TC as friend but not Rick. Rick is the tag along. Rick came as a friend of TC's if I am not mistaken. If there were no TC, TM might not necessarily choose Rick as a friend. Yes of course they are friends but the depth or quality of their friendship differs from that between TM & TC. I am not saying that TM & Rick are not strong together; they are. But it is a bit less than that between TM & TC. Sadly, I must say, TM likes TC at least a shade more than for Rick.
Oppositely, Rick likes TM more than the reverse (in my view).

[Gorilla Mask]

GM as always you are well spoken. I don't know how you do it. Maybe in your boyhood in France watching MPI, your brain totally absorbed the dialogues each week, ending up as eloquent a speaker as TS. I see we are well aligned and so I went back and read your earlier post. Shazaam, it's nicely written and meaning quite clear. Another fascination for me: Words are like a chameleon; they can change meaning according to their environment. My interpretation was my own doing, excuse me. I see now your words can be taken on either side of the discussion. Politicians would love to craft their words so nicely (though not your intent of course). My take simply continued the thread previously, so excuse me for missing your drift. Thanks for clarifying it.

GM you have an interesting view about the relations between TM, TC & Rick. You hit a bullseye about TC & Rick differing personality-wise. TC tells ya the way he sees it. In that way he is trustworthy because you know where he stands. Rick on the other hand has some baggage; he seems to be a schemer. He can be a smooth talker, so that rightly or wrongly raises suspicion in us. As attractive as Rick is--he is handsome and fun loving--TC is more reliable. He is more durable too. So you're gonna pick TC ten times out ten for your side in a knife fight. Also he is fairly good at basketball, which is TM/TS's main sport. (The two of them displayed their respective skill in an MPI episode!) The two of them together would be formidable in any Two-on-Two Tournament. (TS was a true star in the sport in his time.) Tremendous bonding there for two males via basketball and knife fights. Rick then is just a tag along for those two categories and earns his way by being crafty in the social world. Thus he is a manager for a five star club/restaurant. So based on this personality view we must conclude that TC is tighter with TM than what Rick is.

Thanks again Mark for your appreciation!

On your side, I also note a very elegant pen!

In my profession sentence construction and exegetical logic is second nature, but I am certainly not a perfect reference, others are!

You are right: indeed, the voice-over in Magnum has always been very inspiring for me. This is especially the case with the very good quality of the French dubbing (I was 7-9 years old when I watched MPI). On this forum, some people paid tribute to Francis Lax who was the voice of Magnum in France and whose elegance contributed to its fame in our country.

To come back to the proximity between TM-TC and TM-Rick, if I had a point of view to formulate 'as if it was real life', I would say that the bond of brotherhood is certainly more visible between TM and TC. However, Rick's more complex personality does not mean that TM likes him less as a friend. The fact that these friendships are less visible and less explicit does not mean that they are less deep. Perhaps they are expressing just differently? Rick is probably more withdrawn and solitary, a bit the image he gives in "The woman on the Beach" or later in "The People vs. Orville Wright".

Another set of relationships that could be studied is the one between Higgins and TC and Rick. at the beginning of the series Higgins tends to treat Rick as an insubordinate attendant. As the series progresses, a certain closeness develops between them. Perhaps because they are both managers?

But that's another topic, sorry.

Though we agree much about our views on MPI, I think we might differ about that of TM & Rick. So let me approach this from another angle. Research exists that tells us the genders differ how they make friends at least in childhood. Girls do it through social talk; boys, action play.

Using that as a lens, TM and TC share so so much based on sports and all those helicopter trips together that their relation is likely deeper than that between TM & Rick. The physical activities shared reinforce the relationship so typical in male bonding. Rick has less opportunity do so either by choice or circumstance.

TM chose TC as friend but not Rick. Rick is the tag along. Rick came as a friend of TC's if I am not mistaken. If there were no TC, TM might not necessarily choose Rick as a friend. Yes of course they are friends but the depth or quality of their friendship differs from that between TM & TC. I am not saying that TM & Rick are not strong together; they are. But it is a bit less than that between TM & TC. Sadly, I must say, TM likes TC at least a shade more than for Rick.
Oppositely, Rick likes TM more than the reverse (in my view).

Well, you made a good point here with 'action play', especially with a childish mind such as TM's !

You're probalby right for the whole picture. Accordingly, i will pay a special attention about this aspect in my next reviews of the episodes.

[Mark de Croix]

You make a good point about the childish mind of TM. I've long imagined Higgins the adult father and TM the wayward teen!!

[502-to-right]

It's definitely TC for many of the reasons already raised.

Also, keep in mind both Thomas and TC were officers while Rick was enlisted. Officers and enlisted don't socialize much together and don't generally form strong bonds unless they are working closely together on a team (like pilot TC and his door gunner Rick). But officers in Viet Nam would have socialized a lot together.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

I just saw the 2 part Mannix episode from 1974, "Race Against Time" and to my surprise Larry Manetti was listed in the end credits.
So I had to go back through it and sure enough he played a revolutionary soldier in a bit part, I would not have recognized him without the
end credits alerting me to him.
I was wondering, has his bit in Mannix been discussed before here? I don't recall us ever mentioning it but maybe I am wrong.
Also is there any update on his health?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some pointless trivia -
Popeye's parents were Poopdeck Pappy and Irene. His nephews were Pipeye, Poopeye, Peepeye and Pupeye.
Olive Oyl's parents were Cole Oyl and Nana Oyl, her sister Castor Oyl. Her baby of suspect origin was Swee'pea,
many say it's Popeye's kid but my money is on J. Wellington Wimpy of "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" fame.

"Poopdeck Pappy" was also a old Navy term whose connotations are such I can't even attempt to clean it up for
sharing here. A WW2 vet I worked with years ago swore the Popeye writers had to know what it meant and that they figured
they'd give a chuckle to all the salt water tars out there.