Current estate condition

[Jaybird]

I would love to see a "reunion" episode(or two or three) shot at the estate. Higgins, TM and the guys show up, maybe with wives and families in tow. Robin Masters recently repurchased the estate after foolishly selling it a decade ago. Higgins is appalled at the condition and decides to do a restoration. But, the only way it can be pulled off is if everyone pitches in. They only have a few weeks until the Anglo-Hawaiian Orchid Growers Polo match awards ceremony occurs at the estate. In the midst of the mayhem, it turns out that someone doesn't want something hidden on the estate to be discovered. Someone is murdered. The 308 GTS comes out of mothballs. Rick revisits the club. TC rents a helicopter for an island tour and is forced to make an emergency landing. Magnum is maybe still single or divorced but catches up with his original wife who emigrated to Hawaii 10 years ago.
Take it from there guys! Net is that this would be an immensely popular mini series (let's say 4, 1 hour episodes)! The estate gets restored in the process and is brought into the 21st century tech-wise.
Hey! This would be a hit. Everyone gets caught up on what has been going on. This is popular these days. Look at the websites that find your old classmates or whoever.
When it is all over we (the loyal fans) can rest knowing how life has treated all the characters we grew to know and love.

Hey! Who out there knows a producer?!?

[J.J. Walters]

LOL! Nice Mike!

[Kimbosan]

Hi Guys,

I found out from a local real estate agent that the property is owned by a trust, he is currently looking for more info for me, I will keep you posted on the outcome.

Kimbosan

[N1095A]

Hi Guys,

I found out from a local real estate agent that the property is owned by a trust, he is currently looking for more info for me, I will keep you posted on the outcome.

Kimbosan

Yes, as I'm sure you're aware, Ms. Anderson wouldn't own the land. Just like almost all land in Hawaii, unless you're a native you can't own land in Hawaii. You have to lease it from someone who is a native, or as in most cases a trust that represents natives.

[IKnowWhatYoureThinking]

I had no idea that is how it worked in Hawaii. That's a very interesting piece of information.

[golfmobile]

Then how did Tom Selleck own his house when he lived there during MPI?

golf

[N1095A]

Golf
He would have owned the house, but leased the land it was on.
Actually, my first post on the subject is not entirely correct. I sort of oversimplified it a bit. There is privately owned land in Hawaii, but most of the land is owned by trusts, dating from the time when Hawaii was a monarchy, and a few large estates owned the land. These trusts still retain ownership of the land. The trusts then lease the land to a buyer through a leasehold interest. The buyer makes regular lease payments and pays property taxes. Typical leasehold provisions run for 55 years with the rent fixed for approximately 30 years.
Private ownership of land zoned for residential use is more limited than leasehold property. This is called "Fee simple land" and tends to be more expensive, since the owner holds title to the property and can pass it along to heirs.

[ConchRepublican]

Excellent work there!

Now we just need special pith helmets and we're set!

[rubber chicken]

N1095A, I hate to dispute in part what you're saying, but I'm not sure that's exactly representative of Hawaiian land ownership issues. I don't think only Hawaiians can own land. I'm not sure I understand completely, but as far as I know the only thing relating native Hawaiian's to land ownership any differently than non-native Hawaiians is the Bernice Pauahi Bishop Estate, which is a trust created according to Bernice Pauahi Bishop's will. Basically, as I understand it, like the Royal family in England, she was the largest private land owner in Hawaii, and after she died a large portion of that was devoted to the creation and continuation of a school for boys and girls (mainly of Hawaiian descent). So, many properties have the land owned by Kamehameha Schools and the structures on the land can be owned by the homeowner, at least until the lease of the land runs out, but I'm not sure of the complexities there. I'm also not sure how much of leased land in Hawaii is in private ownership vs. Kamehameha Schools ownership. But I'm pretty sure that even though Kamehameha Schools still owns much of what was donated to them by Bernice Pauahi Bishop, private land owners do own huge amounts of the islands. Sugarcane growers have owned hundreds of thousands of acres for instance.

The Anderson Estate "owner type" on the Honolulu property site is listed as "Fee Owner". Frustratingly I can't find a simple explanation of what it means when the owner type is Fee Owner, but I'm leaning towards that meaning Mrs. Anderson owns the land as well as the home, just as most people do across the US. I'm thinking Fee Owner is the same as Fee Simple, defined below. I could be wrong though. If anyone knows differently I'd like to learn more about it. Tom Selleck's old home is also listed as Fee Owner.

Anyway, if I've learned anything in all my online Oahu travels, I've learned that I have more questions than answers about land ownership in Hawaii. I haven't found a resource that explains all these intricacies in detail. So I'm open to any corrections to what I've said.

Here's definitions of two forms of ownership, from this page:

FEE SIMPLE: Fee simple ownership is probably the most familiar form of ownership to buyers of residential property, especially on the Mainland. Fee simple is sometimes called fee simple absolute because it is the most complete form of ownership. A fee simple buyer acquires ownership of the entire property, including both the land and buildings. The fee simple owner does not pay ground rents, but does pay maintenance fees and real property taxes. The fee simple owner has the right to possess, use the land and dispose of the land as he wishes--sell it, give it away, trade it for other things, lease it to others, or pass it to others upon death.

LEASEHOLD: The leasehold interest is created when a fee simple land-owner enters into an agreement or contract called a ground lease with a lessee. A lessee buys leasehold rights much as one buys fee simple rights; however, the leasehold interest differs from the fee simple interest in several important respects. First, the buyer of residential leasehold property does not own the land and must pay ground rent. Second, his use of the land is limited to the remaining years covered by the lease. Therefore, the land returns to the lessor, and is called reversion. Depending on the provisions of any surrender clause in the lease, the buildings and other improvements on the land may also revert to the lessor. Finally, the use, maintenance, and alteration of the leased premises are subject to any restrictions contained in the lease.

[N1095A]

Unfortunately I'm right there with you RC, It seems digging into this subject is rather like watching an episode of LOST. You come away with more questions than answers. The way I explained it was the way I understood it from reading extensively. However I freely admit I only have a minimal understanding. Any new information is greatly appreciated as I find the whole thing very curious. If I've passed along incorrect information, I apologize. Again, I explained as I understood.

[golfmobile]

I don't know if this will help clear it up any, but if, for example, you do an internet (or Google) search for "Hawaii real estate" and find all the realtors' listings, you will see that some ARE sold as "leasehold," but the majority seem to be "fee simple." Of course, nothing is cheap, but perhaps now "fee simple" is more prevalent for NEW sales. Perhaps the Anderson Estate is still a leasehold. I just wonder if someone WERE to buy it now, could that purchaser buy it "fee simple" (would enough money accomplish that)? When does the land CHANGE from "leasehold" to "fee simple"? That may be the more determinative question.

But everytime there's a really big lottery jackpot and I just KNOW I'm going to win, I start looking for real estate in Hawaii. And most, it seems, is "fee simple" now. So WHEN did it occur -- and what allows -- the switchover from "leasehold" to "fee simple"?

I think I just opened another can of worms (are there earthworms in Hawaii?). . . .

golf

[rubber chicken]

No biggie N1095A, I just wanted to add my take on it... I think we both have many questions that probably wouldn't be too hard for the right person to answer, but the info just doesn't seem to be out there that I've found. Like my question about Fee Owner vs. Fee simple. The tax website often uses the term Fee Owner, but I can't find it defined on their website. Or anywhere else for that matter, at least clearly. I may have seen houses defined as Fee Simple on the Honolulu tax site, but it's been awhile and now I'm not sure. The two main definitions that are given by the State of Hawaii are Fee Simple and Leasehold, which is part of what makes me think Fee Owner is the same as Fee Simple. Here's their definition of Fee Simple: FEE SIMPLE: Fee simple ownership is probably the most familiar form of ownership to buyers of residential property, especially on the Mainland. The term Fee simple ownership makes me wonder if Fee Owner is just an abbreviation.

Golf, I *think* that if say, you want to buy land under your house so to speak, and it's owned by Kamehameha Schools, you can buy it outright for likely a (very) large amount of money, but they don't nesseceraly have to sell it to you. I'm pretty sure I've read of people doing that. I think Kamehameha Schools is swimming in money, in part because of people buying land. But lease payments would make them rich alone I think. There's been a fair amount of corruption and questionable actions by Kamehameha Schools in it's history. Everyone in the islands seems to know of it, and not always think highly of it. The donation of all that land for a few schools seems to have been way overkill.

I picture Mrs. Anderson's grandparents (I think that's who built the house?) buying the land when the house was built. It was out in the boonies back in 1933 and I suspect the biggest hurdle to jump when wanting to buy land on Oahu would be lack of money. And I would guess they were well enough off to not have to worry about that. But then it could have depended in part on who owned that land, which we don't know. All of this is conjecture. You'll notice I'm using a lot of "I think's" and "it seems" here...

Here's some info on Leasehold, from this page.

My Opinion on Leasehold

Before you read all the information below I would like to give my opinion of Leasehold.

Leasehold means you don't own the land, so at the end of the lease the property value is 0 and you walk away with nothing. Because of this the value of Leasehold property goes down every year as it heads towards 0 at the end of the lease. With some Leasehold properties you can purchase the fee and make it Fee Simple, and then it can be a great purchase just like any other Fee Simple property. On OahuRE if you see $0 for the fee purchase price, this means it is not available for purchase.

In my opinion Leasehold without the opportunity to purchase the fee is worse then renting. With renting you know exactly how much money you will be spending per month to live. When you purchase a Leasehold property you don't know how much you are spending because you don't know by how fast the property is dropping in value. Remember, because it is Leasehold every year that you get closer to the end of the lease the property drops in value, unlike Fee Simple property which eventually goes up in value.

For example, with Leasehold you are paying your mortgage, the lease fee, the maintenance fee and you might feel that is all you are spending, but what happens if the property costs $250,000 and you decide to sell it after 2 years. You might find the new value is $150,000. So in addition to all you regular monthly expenses, you also lost $100,000 over the 2 year period, or an additional $4,166 per month. It is this unknown loss factor that makes purchasing Leasehold more risky then renting.

Here's info about changing from leasehold to fee simple, from the page I linked to before. The page has more info than in the quote...

PURCHASING THE LEASED FEE

Hawaii does not have a law requiring the lessor to sell to the lessee the leased fee interest under a condominium, cooperative or PUD leasehold project. Still, some lessors decide voluntarily to offer for sale the leased fee interest to apartment owners (referred to as a fee conversion).

How is the offering price determined?

The price at which the fee may be offered is not subject to any legal restrictions. This price may be determined by mutual agreement between the parties or set by an impartial panel of one or more appraisers. In some cases, the lessor may want a certain price, leaving little room for negotiation.

Sorry to be babbling so much, this whole subject fries my brain.

[Kimbosan]

Hi Guys,
Well that was an interesting start to the day....I must say that you all are as passionate as I am towards the estate, I am sure that eve would sell for the right money…”cash is king” and it looks from the photos it needs some $$ spent on it sooner than later.

I heard there were some tradesmen working at the estate recently I will call my local guy to get the inside line and post the details.


kimbosan

[golfmobile]

Kmbosan,

I'm sure we'd all love to hear if work is actually being DONE. It seems, for those of us who have seen the estate over the last 18 months or so, that the tarps and tools always seem to be there, in the same place, so it looks as though nothing has actually been accomplished. Of course, it's rather hard to see through all the overgrown foliage.

We will eagerly await your report.

golf

[Kimbosan]

Hi Golf,

here is some footage of Eve in full flight;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boz2MXzB ... r_embedded


Kimbosan