Pics of the old estate

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

Thanks guys! Hoping to be back there in a couple of months to begin work. Once I do I hope to make it Waimanalo more often for swimming and report more.

Hi perfectlykevin,
I was under the impression that the estate was part of a area, a Hawaiian Beverly Hills if you will, where there was one big estate after another, the beaches all private.
So is there a stretch of public land where you can access the tidal pool? I always thought that if I ever got to Hawaii it would be fun to swim there even if the old
estate is gone. So how does one access it now?
I fear in the future that when an ex president moves in, who is apt to host heads of state and assorted VIPS, that the whole area will be off limits forever.
If I lived in the area I'd take that swim in the tidal pool much sooner than later. Rest assured there are already Feds there monitoring the building
of the new house, to make sure no listening or other devices are planted in it.
Once the house is finished you can count on Secret Service boats shooing away any civilian craft that comes near as they did for President Bush's waterfront Maine home.

Hey Dobie,
The estate front gate is right on Kalanianaole Hwy. not in some kind of wealthy enclave. There are a series of narrow properties to the east with smaller homes, though not inexpensive by any stretch. Pahonu was actually assembled in the early 30’s by the purchase of a series of smaller properties. The Shriners Club is just to the west and the beach can be accessed from the parking lot beyond that property. All beaches in Hawaii are open to the public by state law, just as they are in California and some other states, but not all. There are no private beaches there.
The topic has been discussed in another thread, but I described the circumstances of Richard Nixon’s retirement to his beach home in San Clemente, California after Watergate. It was near a state campground and always had beach goers present. My wife’s grandmother was among them and recalled that the Secret Service would grow in number if he was in residence. She said they would not tell people to simply leave, as they legally couldn’t, but if one chose to put down a blanket too close by, they would remain there to monitor you. Ultimately most people would give a wide berth but occasionally Secret Service could be seen standing down on the sand in their suits!

Pahonu,
Thank you for all the spot on information, I really appreciate you setting me straight.
Interesting story about the grandmother. In 1967 my family was visiting the Concorde battlefield park, my brother Greg spotted a Lincoln Continental - or as he called it Lincoln Confidential - you know,
the model with the infamous 'suicide doors'. We walked over, the windows were down, it was illegally parked 50 yards into a park grassy area, but nobody was near it.
We had come up behind it, coming around the side we saw the Vice Presidential emblem on the side door.
Greg dared me to sit at the wheel, I should have but chickened out, I wasn't worried about the missing Secret service detail but if my father and uncle came back I would have gotten it.
You mentioned this topic was in another thread, it does sound vaguely familiar but with the amount of threads and posts it's hard to keep track.

[Gorilla Mask]

]

Pahonu,
Thank you for all the spot on information, I really appreciate you setting me straight.
Interesting story about the grandmother. In 1967 my family was visiting the Concorde battlefield park, my brother Greg spotted a Lincoln Continental - or as he called it Lincoln Confidential - you know,
the model with the infamous 'suicide doors'. We walked over, the windows were down, it was illegally parked 50 yards into a park grassy area, but nobody was near it.
We had come up behind it, coming around the side we saw the Vice Presidential emblem on the side door.
Greg dared me to sit at the wheel, I should have but chickened out, I wasn't worried about the missing Secret service detail but if my father and uncle came back I would have gotten it.
You mentioned this topic was in another thread, it does sound vaguely familiar but with the amount of threads and posts it's hard to keep track.

Hi Dobie, Here the last thread's page where this matter was discussed

http://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopic ... xon#p71747

Very interesting to establish a comparison.

In France, it is possible to ban the free access to the seafront for reasons of "state security". The most famous case is that of the residence of the President of the Republic in Brégançon, in Département of Var.

Access to the public maritime domain is governed by a law called "Littoral" of 1986:

" Pedestrian access to the beaches is free except if reasons justified by security, national defense or environmental protection require special provisions. The free and unrestricted use of the beaches by the public constitutes the fundamental destination of the beaches in the same way as their allocation to fishing and marine culture activities". An easement of 3 m will also be left between the shore and the present establishment (...) to allow free wandering".

So, It is some sort of state privilege that takes precedence over the principle of free access to the public domain... I don't know if there is an equivalent rule in the States.

[Pahonu]

]

Pahonu,
Thank you for all the spot on information, I really appreciate you setting me straight.
Interesting story about the grandmother. In 1967 my family was visiting the Concorde battlefield park, my brother Greg spotted a Lincoln Continental - or as he called it Lincoln Confidential - you know,
the model with the infamous 'suicide doors'. We walked over, the windows were down, it was illegally parked 50 yards into a park grassy area, but nobody was near it.
We had come up behind it, coming around the side we saw the Vice Presidential emblem on the side door.
Greg dared me to sit at the wheel, I should have but chickened out, I wasn't worried about the missing Secret service detail but if my father and uncle came back I would have gotten it.
You mentioned this topic was in another thread, it does sound vaguely familiar but with the amount of threads and posts it's hard to keep track.

Hi Dobie, Here the last thread's page where this matter was discussed

http://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopic ... xon#p71747

Very interesting to establish a comparison.

In France, it is possible to ban the free access to the seafront for reasons of "state security". The most famous case is that of the residence of the President of the Republic in Brégançon, in Département of Var.

Access to the public maritime domain is governed by a law called "Littoral" of 1986:

" Pedestrian access to the beaches is free except if reasons justified by security, national defense or environmental protection require special provisions. The free and unrestricted use of the beaches by the public constitutes the fundamental destination of the beaches in the same way as their allocation to fishing and marine culture activities". An easement of 3 m will also be left between the shore and the present establishment (...) to allow free wandering".

So, It is some sort of state privilege that takes precedence over the principle of free access to the public domain... I don't know if there is an equivalent rule in the States.

I would imagine that such national defense provisions exist in federal law, and would usurp any state laws. However, I think that President Nixon simply being in his home wouldn’t constitute a security crisis keeping everyone off the beach, and that’s not what they did. It was used while he was president as well. I think if he was on the beach and he was still president, that might be different. Still, sitting presidents on vacation to such places have increased protection not the closure of the entire area. I’m thinking Trump wasn’t golfing on an empty course all those times and the Obamas visiting Martha’s Vineyard didn’t close the island down.

The home was quite a secure compound, not unlike Pahonu. It’s on a low bluff above the beach and called Casa Pacifica. It was used while he was president as a retreat, and hosted some pretty big international dignitaries. It has a coastal train route right at the edge of the bluff that I’ve been on. There’s also one of the best surfing spots in Southern California just south of it named Trestles, for the railway bridge. The train runs through the town near the campground to the north but runs right at the coast further south near the home. The route is the Pacific Surfliner and it has some stunning views.

https://www.mansionglobal.com/amp/artic ... ike-226790

https://www.pacificsurfliner.com/

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

Nixon's home sure looks like Pahonu. Same style I imagine. And he had the lads too. Well, at least one lad - Checkers.

[Gorilla Mask]

So, Nixon Casa Pacifica Home looks beautiful and impressive too. Spanish revival style at its highest ?

Fort Bregançon is very different for sure:

https://www.bormeslesmimosas.com/fr/quo ... -bregancon

Unlike most french public domain properties, it is scarcely open for public visits, but only some days a year.

[Pahonu]

Nixon's home sure looks like Pahonu. Same style I imagine. And he had the lads too. Well, at least one lad - Checkers.

You are correct about the architectural style!
About Checkers… less so.

[Pahonu]

So, Nixon Casa Pacifica Home looks beautiful and impressive too. Spanish revival style at its highest ?

Fort Bregançon is very different for sure:

https://www.bormeslesmimosas.com/fr/quo ... -bregancon

Unlike most french public domain properties, it is scarcely open for public visits, but only some days a year.

It was indeed built during the height of the style’s popularity during the 20’s and 30’s. It is a landmark of the style.

After an acquaintance of mine recently purchased a unit in a 1926 Spanish Colonial Revival masterpiece called The Andalusia in West Hollywood, I have become obsessed with the place and the whole courtyard housing concept. I actually found it in an old architecture book on the topic I bought years ago. It was one of several of its type built in the LA area by a very unique couple called the Zwebells. I wish I could visit all of their places but they are all still privately owned. I found a floor plan in the book and am attempting to create a SketchUp model of it, just as I did for Pahonu. Here are some links:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_And ... alifornia)

Here’s the listing of the unit purchased last year:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/West-Hollywoo ... me/8143454

Here’s a video of another unit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_contin ... e=emb_logo

Here’s the book:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/180 ... os_Angeles

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

]

Pahonu,
Thank you for all the spot on information, I really appreciate you setting me straight.
Interesting story about the grandmother. In 1967 my family was visiting the Concorde battlefield park, my brother Greg spotted a Lincoln Continental - or as he called it Lincoln Confidential - you know,
the model with the infamous 'suicide doors'. We walked over, the windows were down, it was illegally parked 50 yards into a park grassy area, but nobody was near it.
We had come up behind it, coming around the side we saw the Vice Presidential emblem on the side door.
Greg dared me to sit at the wheel, I should have but chickened out, I wasn't worried about the missing Secret service detail but if my father and uncle came back I would have gotten it.
You mentioned this topic was in another thread, it does sound vaguely familiar but with the amount of threads and posts it's hard to keep track.

Hi Dobie, Here the last thread's page where this matter was discussed

http://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopic ... xon#p71747

Very interesting to establish a comparison.
In France, it is possible to ban the free access to the seafront for reasons of "state security". The most famous case is that of the residence of the President of the Republic in Brégançon, in Département of Var.
Access to the public maritime domain is governed by a law called "Littoral" of 1986:

" Pedestrian access to the beaches is free except if reasons justified by security, national defense or environmental protection require special provisions. The free and unrestricted use of the beaches by the public constitutes the fundamental destination of the beaches in the same way as their allocation to fishing and marine culture activities". An easement of 3 m will also be left between the shore and the present establishment (...) to allow free wandering".
So, It is some sort of state privilege that takes precedence over the principle of free access to the public domain... I don't know if there is an equivalent rule in the States.

Allo Gorilla Mask,
Merci beaucoup pour le service.

[Gorilla Mask]

]

Pahonu,
Thank you for all the spot on information, I really appreciate you setting me straight.
Interesting story about the grandmother. In 1967 my family was visiting the Concorde battlefield park, my brother Greg spotted a Lincoln Continental - or as he called it Lincoln Confidential - you know,
the model with the infamous 'suicide doors'. We walked over, the windows were down, it was illegally parked 50 yards into a park grassy area, but nobody was near it.
We had come up behind it, coming around the side we saw the Vice Presidential emblem on the side door.
Greg dared me to sit at the wheel, I should have but chickened out, I wasn't worried about the missing Secret service detail but if my father and uncle came back I would have gotten it.
You mentioned this topic was in another thread, it does sound vaguely familiar but with the amount of threads and posts it's hard to keep track.

Hi Dobie, Here the last thread's page where this matter was discussed

http://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopic ... xon#p71747

Very interesting to establish a comparison.
In France, it is possible to ban the free access to the seafront for reasons of "state security". The most famous case is that of the residence of the President of the Republic in Brégançon, in Département of Var.
Access to the public maritime domain is governed by a law called "Littoral" of 1986:

" Pedestrian access to the beaches is free except if reasons justified by security, national defense or environmental protection require special provisions. The free and unrestricted use of the beaches by the public constitutes the fundamental destination of the beaches in the same way as their allocation to fishing and marine culture activities". An easement of 3 m will also be left between the shore and the present establishment (...) to allow free wandering".
So, It is some sort of state privilege that takes precedence over the principle of free access to the public domain... I don't know if there is an equivalent rule in the States.

Allo Gorilla Mask,
Merci beaucoup pour le service.

Bonjour cher Dobie ! C'est toujours un plaisir de rendre service à un ami si bien éduqué.

[Gorilla Mask]

So, Nixon Casa Pacifica Home looks beautiful and impressive too. Spanish revival style at its highest ?

Fort Bregançon is very different for sure:

https://www.bormeslesmimosas.com/fr/quo ... -bregancon

Unlike most french public domain properties, it is scarcely open for public visits, but only some days a year.

It was indeed built during the height of the style’s popularity during the 20’s and 30’s. It is a landmark of the style.

After an acquaintance of mine recently purchased a unit in a 1926 Spanish Colonial Revival masterpiece called The Andalusia in West Hollywood, I have become obsessed with the place and the whole courtyard housing concept. I actually found it in an old architecture book on the topic I bought years ago. It was one of several of its type built in the LA area by a very unique couple called the Zwebells. I wish I could visit all of their places but they are all still privately owned. I found a floor plan in the book and am attempting to create a SketchUp model of it, just as I did for Pahonu. Here are some links:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_And ... alifornia)

Here’s the listing of the unit purchased last year:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/West-Hollywoo ... me/8143454

Here’s a video of another unit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_contin ... e=emb_logo

Here’s the book:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/180 ... os_Angeles

Very impressive, the closed 'patio' configuration is very well apprehended on this 'hacienda'. A very luxurious residence but it surely costs an arm and a leg to maintain. Did you notice the hanging vegetation? It's typically Spanish (andalusian actually) to create walls/domes of greenery.

[Pahonu]

So, Nixon Casa Pacifica Home looks beautiful and impressive too. Spanish revival style at its highest ?

Fort Bregançon is very different for sure:

https://www.bormeslesmimosas.com/fr/quo ... -bregancon

Unlike most french public domain properties, it is scarcely open for public visits, but only some days a year.

It was indeed built during the height of the style’s popularity during the 20’s and 30’s. It is a landmark of the style.

After an acquaintance of mine recently purchased a unit in a 1926 Spanish Colonial Revival masterpiece called The Andalusia in West Hollywood, I have become obsessed with the place and the whole courtyard housing concept. I actually found it in an old architecture book on the topic I bought years ago. It was one of several of its type built in the LA area by a very unique couple called the Zwebells. I wish I could visit all of their places but they are all still privately owned. I found a floor plan in the book and am attempting to create a SketchUp model of it, just as I did for Pahonu. Here are some links:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_And ... alifornia)

Here’s the listing of the unit purchased last year:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/West-Hollywoo ... me/8143454

Here’s a video of another unit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_contin ... e=emb_logo

Here’s the book:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/180 ... os_Angeles

Very impressive, the closed 'patio' configuration is very well apprehended on this 'hacienda'. A very luxurious residence but it surely costs an arm and a leg to maintain. Did you notice the hanging vegetation? It's typically Spanish (andalusian actually) to create walls/domes of greenery.

It’s certainly an old structure (for LA ), approaching 100 years, but apparently the plumbing, electrical, and heating systems were completely redone about 15-20 years ago when it was converted from apartments to condominiums. It’s hard to imagine apartments being so luxurious. They’re not built that way any more! Several well-known Hollywood stars from the Golden Age lived there with the studios paying the rent. It’s one of only two two-bedroom units. There are also two three-bedroom units and the rest are singles. There’s even parking for twelve cars, and it’s just a hundred yards to the Sunset Strip and all its activity. The combined value of the nine units is about $12 million today.

http://tdclassicist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... s.html?m=1

The plantings you mention are espaliered, which was very common on the balconies and walls of such structures. The foliage in general played a massive role in the communal space of the central courtyards, as did fountains, fireplaces, and benches. All units open toward the courtyard, but it’s not just an open space. Rather it has smaller, more private areas designed into the larger space. I think it is a building type that should be reconsidered here in the LA area given the housing shortage. It provides nine units in the space of just two single-family homes, but I don’t think most people would complain about its beauty or amenities.

The courtyard or patio as you called it was central to the structural type. The architectural styles varied, although this particular couple worked only in the Mediterranean Revival styles, including Spanish, Italian, and even one Moorish complex called Patio Del Moro. Several have been listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_del_Moro

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cabrillo

https://calisphere.org/item/e4757f4a054 ... 103cd9efb/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michael_locke/7086043903

https://la.curbed.com/2019/12/18/210257 ... ra-zwebell

The last one is in danger of being torn down for redevelopment after 99 years!

[Gorilla Mask]

It’s certainly an old structure (for LA ), approaching 100 years, but apparently the plumbing, electrical, and heating systems were completely redone about 15-20 years ago when it was converted from apartments to condominiums. It’s hard to imagine apartments being so luxurious. They’re not built that way any more! Several well-known Hollywood stars from the Golden Age lived there with the studios paying the rent. It’s one of only two two-bedroom units. There are also two three-bedroom units and the rest are singles. There’s even parking for twelve cars, and it’s just a hundred yards to the Sunset Strip and all its activity. The combined value of the nine units is about $12 million today.

http://tdclassicist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... s.html?m=1

The plantings you mention are espaliered, which was very common on the balconies and walls of such structures. The foliage in general played a massive role in the communal space of the central courtyards, as did fountains, fireplaces, and benches. All units open toward the courtyard, but it’s not just an open space. Rather it has smaller, more private areas designed into the larger space. I think it is a building type that should be reconsidered here in the LA area given the housing shortage. It provides nine units in the space of just two single-family homes, but I don’t think most people would complain about its beauty or amenities.

The courtyard or patio as you called it was central to the structural type. The architectural styles varied, although this particular couple worked only in the Mediterranean Revival styles, including Spanish, Italian, and even one Moorish complex called Patio Del Moro. Several have been listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_del_Moro

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cabrillo

https://calisphere.org/item/e4757f4a054 ... 103cd9efb/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michael_locke/7086043903

https://la.curbed.com/2019/12/18/210257 ... ra-zwebell

The last one is in danger of being torn down for redevelopment after 99 years!

The last article is impressive and very inspiring. How the use of an architectural configuration, by the camera, tells a story and script variations even through the evolution of the characters themselves...

What a pity that Villa Primavera is threatened. Is there no way to make it a historical monument?

[Pahonu]

It’s certainly an old structure (for LA ), approaching 100 years, but apparently the plumbing, electrical, and heating systems were completely redone about 15-20 years ago when it was converted from apartments to condominiums. It’s hard to imagine apartments being so luxurious. They’re not built that way any more! Several well-known Hollywood stars from the Golden Age lived there with the studios paying the rent. It’s one of only two two-bedroom units. There are also two three-bedroom units and the rest are singles. There’s even parking for twelve cars, and it’s just a hundred yards to the Sunset Strip and all its activity. The combined value of the nine units is about $12 million today.

http://tdclassicist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... s.html?m=1

The plantings you mention are espaliered, which was very common on the balconies and walls of such structures. The foliage in general played a massive role in the communal space of the central courtyards, as did fountains, fireplaces, and benches. All units open toward the courtyard, but it’s not just an open space. Rather it has smaller, more private areas designed into the larger space. I think it is a building type that should be reconsidered here in the LA area given the housing shortage. It provides nine units in the space of just two single-family homes, but I don’t think most people would complain about its beauty or amenities.

The courtyard or patio as you called it was central to the structural type. The architectural styles varied, although this particular couple worked only in the Mediterranean Revival styles, including Spanish, Italian, and even one Moorish complex called Patio Del Moro. Several have been listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_del_Moro

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cabrillo

https://calisphere.org/item/e4757f4a054 ... 103cd9efb/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michael_locke/7086043903

https://la.curbed.com/2019/12/18/210257 ... ra-zwebell

The last one is in danger of being torn down for redevelopment after 99 years!

The last article is impressive and very inspiring. How the use of an architectural configuration, by the camera, tells a story and script variations even through the evolution of the characters themselves...

What a pity that Villa Primavera is threatened. Is there no way to make it a historical monument?

The process of historical listing is generally at the discretion of the owners of a property or a group of owners in some cases. Here in California it is encouraged by a significant reduction in property taxes under the Mills Act. Still, some owners prefer not to, as designation brings with it very strict rules on exterior changes to the structures.

In this case the Villa Primavera was still apartment rentals rather than converted to condominium owners as in other examples. It was purchased by a corporate group with no interest in the property other than financially it seems. I’m sure the land value is incredibly high now.

I just checked the status and it is now listed as closed. That wasn’t the case when I read about it being threatened last year. Then it was open but showed no new rentals available. The last of the leases must have expired. That doesn’t give much hope.

[Gorilla Mask]

Hey, Pahonu,

I understand. I shared you sadness because I find these Califronian houses superb, so luxurious and so intimate at the same time.

In France, under the Malraux law of 1962, the State can declare of public interest an operation aiming at expropriating and buying back a historical property or a property of cultural or tourist interest.

Of course, this is rather expensive thus rare. What is more important is the classification of the property as a historical monument. This has the effect of preventing its voluntary destruction by the owner.

This is how, for example, the house of Claude Monet (at Giverny, Normandie), the impressionist painter has been preserved since 1976.

[Pahonu]

Hey, Pahonu,

I understand. I shared you sadness because I find these Califronian houses superb, so luxurious and so intimate at the same time.

In France, under the Malraux law of 1962, the State can declare of public interest an operation aiming at expropriating and buying back a historical property or a property of cultural or tourist interest.

Of course, this is rather expensive thus rare. What is more important is the classification of the property as a historical monument. This has the effect of preventing its voluntary destruction by the owner.

This is how, for example, the house of Claude Monet (at Giverny, Normandie), the impressionist painter has been preserved since 1976.

I don’t know of any legal path for government to designate private property as a historical monument short of purchasing it, and that purchase can’t be forced without a granting of eminent domain status by the courts. It then has to be open for public use. I do know that neighborhoods in various cities have been designated as historic. That still doesn’t prevent any single structure from being torn down or renovated. It simply requires any modifications or newly built structures to fit within a defined set of historic design parameters.

So theoretically, if Villa Primavera was in such a zone, which it’s sadly not, it could be torn down but must be replaced by an approved design in a historically similar style. It wouldn’t even have to be a courtyard apartment complex. It could be a large home, but must be in the appropriate style. These zones were created to protect historic neighborhoods but they’re not the same as historic monuments. In LA they’re called Historic Overlay Zones (HOZ). I know Boston, Philadelphia, and several other cities have many of these. Newer cities like LA have far fewer.