Magnum Mania!

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:40 pm**

Hi, every so often I take screen grabs and manipulate them in GIMP to see if I can get the sky and water to look blue, the grass to look green etc. Most of the frame grabs I've taken have had purple skies and whites tend to look reddish. When desaturating the red, green appears. A typical frame has maybe 20% too much green and red and not enough blue. Some of the tools in the Color>Auto menu, such as Equalize and White Balance have a tendency to show reveal the flaws in the masters.

I should have saved previous experiments and posted them here, but here's one I did today. Last shot from the season 5 episode "Blind Justice".

Original, complete with unnatural midday darkness (solar eclipse?) zero contrast and red mask (red and/or green masks are a frequent problem in the DVD masters)

Lowered the red a bit with GIMP. The sky now looks more accurately blue.

This one was heavily manipulated with GIMP's "Retinex" filter. It still doesn't look right, but comes closer to reality. Now, you can see the statue of Lady Justice and the framing behind the courthouse, visually reinforcing the episode's theme of the characters existing in an ambiguous place between ideal justice and the pragmatic reality of the court.

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:25 am**

The masters used for the MPI DVDs were quite poor in general. It looks like they did little more than scan the film sources in as-is and then run the scans through an MPEG-2 hardware encoder. I don't know what film sources they used either, but I'm guessing they used a mixture of original negatives (which is the best possible source), interpositives, internegatives, and maybe even film prints (the worst possible source). Ideally, the best possible film source is used (original negatives) after giving them a thorough and proper cleaning. Then the characteristics of the scan (which, ideally, should be at least 4K), such as brightness, contrast, color, etc., are adjusted. This needs to be done by an expert, or you end up with problems such as crushed whites or an overly dark picture lacking in shadow detail, or bad color balance shifted to red, green, or blue.

Some episodes look significantly better than others, which I think is indicative of them not being fussy about what film sources they used, and them doing little or no post-processing of the film scans.

Here's an example of the variable quality:

This is a screenshot from the original version of Ki'i's Don't Lie, which was included as a bonus episode on the season 1 DVD set:

And this is a screenshot from the syndicated version of the same episode, which was included on the season 3 DVD set:

The screenshot from the original version of the episode is much higher quality. Look at all the detail that's been preserved in the clothing (especially noticeable on Magnum's jeans), the wooden walls and doors, the actors' faces, etc. That detail is simply gone in the other screenshot. The colors are significantly different between the two screenshots as well.

For most of those two versions of Ki'i's Don't Lie, the picture quality is equally poor, i.e., on the same level as the screenshot from the syndicated version. However, near the end when you reach the scenes of the original version which have different content than the syndicated version, you see it jump in quality. It retains that higher level of quality even in the end credits, even though they are the same end credits that are seen in the syndicated version.

My theory is that they scanned in a complete syndicated version, which was from a poor quality film source, and then they reconstructed the original version by splicing in scans from a different film source, which was higher quality to begin with. Again, this suggests that they weren't at all fussy about the quality of the film source (i.e., they just used whatever was most convenient), nor were they fussy about the quality of the whole procedure in general. The episodes which came out looking good did so by sheer luck.

Supposedly there's two complete series Blu-ray releases in the works, one for Region A and one for Region B:

http://www.blu-ray.com/search/?quicksea ... uraymovies

According to that site, Universal Studios is handling Region A and will be using the ancient MPEG-2 codec (which is very strange for a 2016 Blu-ray release), and "Fabulous Films" is handling Region B and will be using the more modern (and far more efficient) MPEG-4 AVC codec. Both codecs can look equally good, but MPEG-4 AVC requires less than half the bitrate to do so than the 20-year-old MPEG-2 codec does, which means fewer episodes can fit on a disc and/or there will be less room for extras. But the most important thing is: they need to use the best possible film sources and procedures, but I highly doubt they will. TV shows which don't have a huge following like Star Trek, don't usually get the royal treatment. I'd say we're lucky to even get a Blu-ray release at all, given that it's already been a decade since the first Blu-ray titles were released.

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:40 pm**

MaximRecoil wrote: Supposedly there's two complete series Blu-ray releases in the works, one for Region A and one for Region B:

http://www.blu-ray.com/search/?quicksea ... uraymovies

According to that site, Universal Studios is handling Region A and will be using the ancient MPEG-2 codec (which is very strange for a 2016 Blu-ray release), and "Fabulous Films" is handling Region B and will be using the more modern (and far more efficient) MPEG-4 AVC codec. Both codecs can look equally good, but MPEG-4 AVC requires less than half the bitrate to do so than the 20-year-old MPEG-2 codec does, which means fewer episodes can fit on a disc and/or there will be less room for extras. But the most important thing is: they need to use the best possible film sources and procedures, but I highly doubt they will. TV shows which don't have a huge following like Star Trek, don't usually get the royal treatment. I'd say we're lucky to even get a Blu-ray release at all, given that it's already been a decade since the first Blu-ray titles were released.

Hot boogety shoes!!!!!

I've held out replacing some of my gummed up two sided DVDs in hopes of this happening. Yea!!!

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:55 pm**

@MaximRecoil
Thanks for the post. I agree with everything you say, except that I doubt if film elements were used in any of the Magnum DVDs. I think it's more likely analog tapes were used instead. That's how, for example, Dallas and Banacek were handled. That kind of cheap decision won't work in any HD master because all of the flaws would be multiplied by a factor of six (1080*1920 / 720*480).

That second frame has the typical red mask I've seen in so many scenes. Magnum's jeans, and Rick and TC's shirts look purple compared to the first frame (blue +red makes purple). Both frames look much too dark. The second frame might also have a less obvious green mask.

At one point in one of the Banacek episodes the tape stops as it's being scanned, causing the analog shredding that appeared when anyone paused a VHS tape. Then, the tape started again. The Dallas episodes were so bad that, in the later seasons, there were analog horizontal scan lines as in a taped TV broadcast. I guess mastering from the original film elements is too expensive, or whatever. On the other hand, the recent HD master of the old 70s Wonder Woman series looks fantastic. The BluRay release of the original "The Prisoner" series also looked great. Obviously the film was used in those cases.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:41 am**

bjs wrote:@MaximRecoil
Thanks for the post. I agree with everything you say, except that I doubt if film elements were used in any of the Magnum DVDs. I think it's more likely analog tapes were used instead. That's how, for example, Dallas and Banacek were handled. That kind of cheap decision won't work in any HD master because all of the flaws would be multiplied by a factor of six (1080*1920 / 720*480).

They definitely used film sources for all of the MPI DVDs. Not only can I tell by looking (even the worst ones are beyond the quality of analog SD video [which would be Betacam, not to be confused with the consumer-level Betamax format], plus they don't have the distinctive [and ugly] characteristics of analog SD video), but you can also run them through DGIndex, which will show that they are 99.xx% film-source, like any other film-source digital video shows:

Film-source video is structurally different than video-source video, which is why DGIndex can tell the difference. That's because film is 24 FPS, and 100% progressive, and native NTSC video is 29.97 FPS, and 100% interlaced. To transfer film to video, they use a telecine process, AKA: 3:2 pulldown. That means that for every 3 frames of the original full frames (progressive), 2 interlaced frames are added. This brings it up to the 29.97 FPS frame rate of video. This allows you to "IVTC" (inverse telecine) film-source video on a DVD, which strips away the added interlaced frames, leaving you with only the original 24 FPS (23.976 FPS) progressive frames. DVD players which are capable of progressive playback do this in real-time during playblack; the pulldown flags are their instructions on how to do it. In fact, most film-source DVD video streams don't have the interlaced frames actually hard-encoded; i.e., the stream is 23.976 FPS progressive and the pulldown flags tell the DVD player to add the interlaced frames during playback (unless it is in progressive mode, in which case it just plays the 23.976 FPS video stream as-is). This is the case with the MPI DVD video streams, i.e., they are all 23.976 FPS progressive streams, and film is the only possible source of such streams:

Code: Select all

General
Format                         : MPEG Video
Format version                 : Version 2
File size                      : 1.47 GiB
Duration                       : 47mn 13s
Overall bit rate mode          : Variable
Overall bit rate               : 4 451 Kbps

Video
Format                         : MPEG Video
Format version                 : Version 2
Format profile                 : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP          : Yes
Format settings, Matrix        : Custom
Format settings, GOP           : Variable
Duration                       : 47mn 13s
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 4 451 Kbps
Maximum bit rate               : 9 800 Kbps
Width                          : 720 pixels
Height                         : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 4:3
Frame rate                     : 23.976 fps
Standard                       : NTSC
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Scan order                     : 2:3 Pulldown
Compression mode               : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.537
Time code of first frame       : 01:00:53;02
Stream size                    : 1.47 GiB (100%)

There is one anomaly in the MPI DVDs that I know of, and that is Legacy From a Friend (3.19). That one shows up in DGIndex as about 77% film, which in all my years of working with video, I've never seen before. I noticed several instances of hard-encoded interlacing artifacts in it while watching it. I don't know what the explanation for it is; my best guess is: telecine gone wrong.

Here's an example of a video-source DVD:

Notice the "video type" is "NTSC", which is a pure analog video format, the "frame type" is interlaced (native analog video is 100% interlaced), and the frame rate is 29.97 FPS. Sledge Hammer! was shot on analog SD video (Betacam, specifically) in the first place, as many, if not most, sitcoms from the '70s through the '90s were, so they had no choice when transferring to DVD.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:00 am**

Ace thread - glad we have MPI on DVD of course, but seeing the dip in quality is a real shame too. Still very interesting.

Do later seasons have a big quality shift?

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:06 am**

@MaximRecoil

In retrospect, I guess, as bad as the DVDs look at times, they're much better than the other two shows I mentioned. I didn't mention DGIndex's judgement because I'm not sure I trust it as much as you. I've seen too much weird crap for that. I'm also too cynical about the decision-making process. I forgot to mention the audio also sounds horrible, and may even be worse than the picture.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:05 am**

bjs wrote:@MaximRecoil

In retrospect, I guess, as bad as the DVDs look at times, they're much better than the other two shows I mentioned. I didn't mention DGIndex's judgement because I'm not sure I trust it as much as you.

It isn't possible for DGIndex to be wrong in this context. Analog video-source video is 100% interlaced and 29.97 FPS, by definition. It can't be anything else. There are zero progressive frames in analog video. The MPI video streams consist of nearly 100% progressive frames, at a rate of 23.976 FPS. Film is the only possible source of this. Analog video doesn't even have 1 progressive frame in it, much less ~70,000 of them.

When you transfer film to analog video tape, it 100% loses its film identity in terms of structure, because analog video tape is 100% interlaced, period. If you then transfer that film-source analog video tape to DVD and run it through DGIndex, DGIndex will see it as 100% video-source, because there's nothing left of its film structure. Anyone could try this themselves by taking any store-bought VHS tape of a Hollywood movie known to have been shot on film (i.e., nearly all of them), capture it to digital video, encode it to MPEG-2, and then run it through DGIndex. DGIndex will show it as being 100% video-source, because, due to it coming from an analog video tape, that's the only thing it can possibly show up as.

Unlike analog video tape, digital video (DVD format for example) allows film structure to be preserved while simultaneously allowing for interlaced NTSC-compatible playback on SD (~15 kHz) TVs which require it. This preserved film-structure is the only reason that progressive-playback is possible with film-source DVDs. There's no such thing as progressive-playback with analog video tape because it is 100%, irrevocably, permanently interlaced; no exceptions. Likewise, a video-source DVD can't be played back progressively either, because it has no progressive frames to begin with. Magnum PI DVDs can be played back progressively on any DVD player which supports progressive playback, which again, proves they are film-source.

I trust DGIndex because I know how it works, what it looks for, how video-source and film-source structures differ, etc. DGIndex isn't offering an opinion based on a subjective judgment call; it is examining the video structure. It can state, as a fact, whether it is film- or video-source because film- and video-source digital videos have unique structures. I've worked with video since the early 2000s. I still have the first video I ever encoded, which has a creation date of ‎Wednesday, ‎November ‎6, ‎2002, ‏‎10:09:17 PM. You can also go to the online video Mecca, i.e., the Doom9.org forums, where many authors of video encoding and editing software hang out, post a clip of an MPI video stream, and ask them if it's film or video source. I guarantee they will tell you it is film-source.

In summary, in the 1980s, progressive frames only came from film (modern HD digital video cameras can shoot at e.g., 24 FPS, progressive, mimicking film structure; they didn't exist in the '80s). All NTSC analog video cameras and VCRs recorded to tape in a 100% interlaced 29.97 FPS format, no exceptions. The presence of progressive frames on a DVD featuring content shot in the 1980s conclusively proves a film-source, because analog video-source is 100% interlaced, i.e., no progressive frames whatsoever, by definition. The MPI video streams consist of nearly 100% progressive frames.

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:50 pm**

I'm very happy to hear that there are plans for MPI being released in Blu-ray format. I've been putting off the purchase of the entire series hoping something of better quality would soon be available. It wasn't an issue years ago, but with HD TV, and Blu-ray, I want a format that is of the best quality.

For myself, and those others who are technology challenged, I would ask if you could give us your evaluation of the best source, and best quality media. I certainly know, it would help me in making the decision from whom I purchase the MPI series.

Rands

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:41 am**

Rands wrote:For myself, and those others who are technology challenged, I would ask if you could give us your evaluation of the best source, and best quality media. I certainly know, it would help me in making the decision from whom I purchase the MPI series.

Currently, the DVDs are the best you can buy. I've only seen the Region 1 (NTSC) DVDs, but with DVDs, PAL DVDs (such as Region 2) are slightly better quality (all else being equal) because they have a slightly higher resolution (720×576 vs. 720×480). On the other hand, NTSC DVDs have audio which is true to the source because the effective frame rate is the same as the 24 FPS film source, while PAL DVDs have audio that is sped up by about 4% to sync with a 25 FPS frame rate. So everyone's voice sounds slightly higher pitched on a PAL film-source DVD whereas they sound correct on an NTSC DVD. Don't buy DVDs from a different region than is intended for your country unless you know for sure you have the capability of viewing them.

From what I've read, MPI has been or is being broadcast in HD, and that would be much higher quality than the DVDs, assuming they didn't over-compress it when broadcasting it.

If and when the Blu-ray set is released, that will be the best quality by far, assuming they don't royally screw it up. A 4:3 full-HD video stream has a resolution of 1440×1080, which is 4½ times the resolution of an NTSC DVD. We are lucky that MPI was shot on film. A lot of shows from the '70s through the '90s were shot on analog SD video such as Betacam (especially sitcoms), which is less-than-DVD-quality, so they will never be available in HD. A good 35mm film negative on the other hand, can resolve to at least 4K, which is 4 times higher than the maximum Blu-ray resolution.

Posted: **Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:47 pm**

Here are some additional shots, with colour-corrected versions below. All I did to "correct" them was use the "Auto" button in Gimp -- Colors>Levels. If you want to try this yourself, you can take screenshots using vlc if you play the discs on your PC. The filter is definitely lossy, and the picture information typically lost is in the extreme white/black range as the higher contrast blows out details. On the other hand, the corrections are quite good considering the brute force nature of the tool. More careful and professional calibration would produce a much better result.

First, here is a good photograph of Mount Everest, and below the "corrected" version, to show that the tool doesn't do much to a good photo. It seems that, the worse the colour/contrast, the greater the effect of the tool.

Now, the captures from various episodes from season 5.

Posted: **Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:17 pm**

Neat! I think it's fantastic we'll be seeing a BR transfer in the future. I sincerely hope we'll see some of the cuts made to the DVDs restored as well ("L.A.", "The Man From Marseilles", "Resolutions", etc.).

Posted: **Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:14 am**

MaximRecoil wrote:
Rands wrote:For myself, and those others who are technology challenged, I would ask if you could give us your evaluation of the best source, and best quality media. I certainly know, it would help me in making the decision from whom I purchase the MPI series.
Currently, the DVDs are the best you can buy. I've only seen the Region 1 (NTSC) DVDs, but with DVDs, PAL DVDs (such as Region 2) are slightly better quality (all else being equal) because they have a slightly higher resolution (720×576 vs. 720×480). On the other hand, NTSC DVDs have audio which is true to the source because the effective frame rate is the same as the 24 FPS film source, while PAL DVDs have audio that is sped up by about 4% to sync with a 25 FPS frame rate. So everyone's voice sounds slightly higher pitched on a PAL film-source DVD whereas they sound correct on an NTSC DVD. Don't buy DVDs from a different region than is intended for your country unless you know for sure you have the capability of viewing them.

From what I've read, MPI has been or is being broadcast in HD, and that would be much higher quality than the DVDs, assuming they didn't over-compress it when broadcasting it.

If and when the Blu-ray set is released, that will be the best quality by far, assuming they don't royally screw it up. A 4:3 full-HD video stream has a resolution of 1440×1080, which is 4½ times the resolution of an NTSC DVD. We are lucky that MPI was shot on film. A lot of shows from the '70s through the '90s were shot on analog SD video such as Betacam (especially sitcoms), which is less-than-DVD-quality, so they will never be available in HD. A good 35mm film negative on the other hand, can resolve to at least 4K, which is 4 times higher than the maximum Blu-ray resolution.

I don't know if it's being broadcast in HD but it is available for streaming via Encore in HD and it looks AMAZING, just worlds better than the DVD release. The best frame of reference I can think to give is that it looks as good as the HD version of The Rockford Files does when streamed over Netflix. I hope that Blu-Ray release comes out soon. Now if only Fox would do a Blu-Ray version of M*A*S*H…

Posted: **Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:40 am**

Cagliostro wrote:I don't know if it's being broadcast in HD but it is available for streaming via Encore in HD and it looks AMAZING, just worlds better than the DVD release. The best frame of reference I can think to give is that it looks as good as the HD version of The Rockford Files does when streamed over Netflix. I hope that Blu-Ray release comes out soon. Now if only Fox would do a Blu-Ray version of M*A*S*H…

The only version I've seen on TV of either Magnum or Rockford is I think the syndicated package. If you can, you should maybe post some screencaps on here.

Maybe we'll notice some new details in the image we couldn't see before.

Posted: **Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:33 pm**

I've been watching the Encore HD episodes on a Samsung UN55KS8000 55-Inch 4K Ultra HD TV. It is amazing. At times it feels like your standing in the scene. The Jack Lord Hawaii 5-O remastered in HD looks great also. It's like watching new shows all over again.

Magnum Mania!

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