Unfinished Business (8.8)

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10 (Perfect!)
37
29%
9.5 (One of the Best)
59
46%
9.0 (Excellent)
9
7%
8.5 (Very Good)
12
9%
8.0 (Pretty Good)
5
4%
7.5 (Decent)
2
2%
7.0 (Average at Best)
0
No votes
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0
No votes
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No votes
5.0 (Just Awful)
3
2%
 
Total votes: 127

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Carol the Dabbler
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#76 Post by Carol the Dabbler »

[quote=""J.J. Walters (Episode Guide, Quote 1, end of first paragraph)"]Somehow, I know I will see you again. I hope that you and your mama are well and happy. I think of you everyday.[/quote]

Minor quibble: The word "everyday" is an adjective, meaning ordinary (e.g., "everyday clothes"), whereas the phrase "every day" is an adverb meaning daily (e.g., "I eat breakfast every day"). So from a pedantic point of view, Magnum's voice-over should have been transcribed as "I think of you every day."

Of course, if we actually see those words written in his letter, then they'd have to be quoted as written. (I don't believe we see the letter, but can't recall for sure.)

By the way, this (mis)use of "everyday" is becoming so common that it will undoubtedly become the standard sooner or later. Perhaps the Episode Guide is merely ahead of its time!
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#77 Post by J.J. Walters »

Everyday it's a-gettin' closer
Goin' faster than a roller coaster
Love like yours will surely come my way
A-hey, a-hey-hey
Everyday it's a-gettin' faster
...

A little Buddy Holly there for you! ;)

My bad on the grammatical error! More than likely the update was made late at night, so I could blame it on fatigue. I do use the correct spelling of 'a lot' (not 'alot')! :)
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#78 Post by Carol the Dabbler »

J.J. Walters wrote:More than likely the update was made late at night, so I could blame it on fatigue.
Been there, done that! I once ruined an entire joke by getting the punch line backwards.
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#79 Post by Jaybird »

maggiepoole wrote:This is such a powerful episode. Very heavy! I remembered it (from seeing it when it was originally on), after I watched it again last week. But, the videotape scene was still a surprise. I knew what was coming, but still didn't prepare me for it. Even watching it again, I jump! It is such a compelling episode, but hard to watch at the same time. Your heart just aches for Magnum, can't imagine going through that. Have to say that Tom Selleck is one of the most incredible actors. No one can cry like he can!

Just a few things I am puzzled about though. The report Magnum finds in Buck's house says transport to Ile Debonnevie. I am assuming that is in France? Is it? I tried to google it to find the area, but nothing came up. My French and French geography are lacking, but I am wondering if that is a real place? If it was France, Magnum took a boat from Hawaii to France?? Was he in Hawaii when he got the boat? That area didn't quite look like Hawaiian geography?

I was also wondering what Magnum was writing on the ammo box.
Image
I guess he was trying to figure out the maximum capability of his gun? Not a weapons expert either. :wink:
Magnum is shooting a Steyr SSG 69, Model P 1 made in Austria, and is an very accurate rifle used by police and military around the world as their go-to sniper rifle. It fires the 7.62 x 51 NATO round, civilian version is the 308. He already knows the ballistics for a 308 caliber, 168 grn bullet, muzzle velocity +/- 2600 fps. So if he is sighted in say at 300 yards, he knows how much the bullet will drop at 400 yards, 500 yards, 800 yards...whatever. And he knows how high it will shoot at say, 200 yards. Hawaii can be windy and he has his data on wind drift. Figuring wind drift, the velocity and direction at various ranges is what separates the really good marksmen from everyone else. Anyway, his scope is probably a Kahles 6x with mil dots or mil marks. Usually there is a dot every 5 mils and a small line every 10 mils. You look through the scope and note the number of mils that is bracketing your target. Then you input into the formula a known height, same range and multiply x 1000 and you get your distance to the target. A human, belt to head, is very close to 36" so this becomes your known height. This is how it was done in Vietnam before laser range finders that are used today. At longer ranges the trajectory is pretty radical. If he was thought his target was 880 yards, as an example, and it actually was only 800 yards, his bullet would impact about 42" higher than his point of aim! If he is sighted in at 300 yards and his target was 100 or 200 yards he would only have to hold a few inches low and past 300, say to 350, he would hold on the head to hit the torso. Past that, you have to know the range. Snipers will use known heights on buildings, cars, tanks or perhaps the person to get that "known height or width". Today's snipers are a team, with a spotter and a laser range finder on a spotting scope. They'll be able to see the air disturbance caused by the bullet and call the shot so the rifleman can adjust his aim. I believe the longest" confirmed" is about 2500 meters, Afganistan, by a Canadian soldier, Rob Furlong, using a 408 Cheytac. The round Magnum was using is effective to perhaps 1000 yards. In any case, if he took the shot that burlap on his muzzle would have done nothing but cause him to miss. Had he used a suppressor his round would have to be subsonic and that would have ruled out any long range shot.

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#80 Post by Buck »

Jaybird wrote:
maggiepoole wrote:This is such a powerful episode. Very heavy! I remembered it (from seeing it when it was originally on), after I watched it again last week. But, the videotape scene was still a surprise. I knew what was coming, but still didn't prepare me for it. Even watching it again, I jump! It is such a compelling episode, but hard to watch at the same time. Your heart just aches for Magnum, can't imagine going through that. Have to say that Tom Selleck is one of the most incredible actors. No one can cry like he can!

Just a few things I am puzzled about though. The report Magnum finds in Buck's house says transport to Ile Debonnevie. I am assuming that is in France? Is it? I tried to google it to find the area, but nothing came up. My French and French geography are lacking, but I am wondering if that is a real place? If it was France, Magnum took a boat from Hawaii to France?? Was he in Hawaii when he got the boat? That area didn't quite look like Hawaiian geography?

I was also wondering what Magnum was writing on the ammo box.
Image
I guess he was trying to figure out the maximum capability of his gun? Not a weapons expert either. :wink:
Magnum is shooting a Steyr SSG 69, Model P 1 made in Austria, and is an very accurate rifle used by police and military around the world as their go-to sniper rifle. It fires the 7.62 x 51 NATO round, civilian version is the 308. He already knows the ballistics for a 308 caliber, 168 grn bullet, muzzle velocity +/- 2600 fps. So if he is sighted in say at 300 yards, he knows how much the bullet will drop at 400 yards, 500 yards, 800 yards...whatever. And he knows how high it will shoot at say, 200 yards. Hawaii can be windy and he has his data on wind drift. Figuring wind drift, the velocity and direction at various ranges is what separates the really good marksmen from everyone else. Anyway, his scope is probably a Kahles 6x with mil dots or mil marks. Usually there is a dot every 5 mils and a small line every 10 mils. You look through the scope and note the number of mils that is bracketing your target. Then you input into the formula a known height, same range and multiply x 1000 and you get your distance to the target. A human, belt to head, is very close to 36" so this becomes your known height. This is how it was done in Vietnam before laser range finders that are used today. At longer ranges the trajectory is pretty radical. If he was thought his target was 880 yards, as an example, and it actually was only 800 yards, his bullet would impact about 42" higher than his point of aim! If he is sighted in at 300 yards and his target was 100 or 200 yards he would only have to hold a few inches low and past 300, say to 350, he would hold on the head to hit the torso. Past that, you have to know the range. Snipers will use known heights on buildings, cars, tanks or perhaps the person to get that "known height or width". Today's snipers are a team, with a spotter and a laser range finder on a spotting scope. They'll be able to see the air disturbance caused by the bullet and call the shot so the rifleman can adjust his aim. I believe the longest" confirmed" is about 2500 meters, Afganistan, by a Canadian soldier, Rob Furlong, using a 408 Cheytac. The round Magnum was using is effective to perhaps 1000 yards. In any case, if he took the shot that burlap on his muzzle would have done nothing but cause him to miss. Had he used a suppressor his round would have to be subsonic and that would have ruled out any long range shot.
Thank you for explaining that! It makes it much more enjoyable to know the details.

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#81 Post by Buck »

Jay-Firestorm wrote:This episode is a favourite with many fans, and I have to agree it is a very good one. Seeing Magnum breaking every rule and law imaginable to plan the killing of Quang Ki is excellent (although he must have been *really good* to walk onto a Military base undetected!), and the moment at the end where he can’t bring himself to take a pot shot at Ki, realising the political implications it would have in the P.O.W. return programme, is a powerful one.
Getting in an American military base located in the United States is very easy, at least in the 1980's.

When I turned 16 and got my drivers license, a friend told me that in the military they did not observe the rule that a person must be 21 to buy beer, and the shop on a military base will sell beer. In the USA the liquer laws are that you must be 21 to buy alcoholic beverages. The military did not observe this law.

I drove to the gate of the military base and told the Military Police gaurding the gate that I was looking for someone. The MP pointed at a building where I could park my car. After getting on base, I was free to drive and walk anywhere I wanted. Nobody stopped or questioned me. I drove to the military base shop, purchased 2 cases of beer, and then decided to walk around the base.

I was able to walk into an area where they kept military helicopters. They were unlocked. One mechanic asked what I was doing there, I told him I was "exploring" the base, and he told me to "explore" elsewhere. But at no time was I kicked out. I walked a little longer and saw where they kept tanks, but they were behind a fense. Anyone could climb that fense, but I didn't.

There is a story of a man who walked into a military base in San Diego and entered an unlocked tank and drove it in downtown San Diego. I believe the police shot and killed him later that day.

Getting on a base is easy if you are an American. This may have changed after 9/11.

I remember one more memory from my childhood. I was vacationing in Greece with my cousins who are from Europe. We walked down the beach into an area that had a sign that said forbidden to go further, there is a military base. I saw the American flag and was excited to see my nations military in Europe. I ran full speed towards the gate. Unlike the version of military bases in the united states that look welcoming, this base in greece had barbed wire and I could not see any MP standing to welcome visitors. Instead it appeared like there were foxholes with infintry soldiers in them and nothing was visible except a little bit of M-16's and the top of helmits. I continued to run toward the base even though I heard someone yell to stop. By this time my cousin stopped running, he was scared to death, but I continued to run towards the base. I heard some yelling comming from the base, and a soldier in full BDU popped up from nowhere and grabbed me. He thought I was a local kid messing with them, but when he found out I was an American he was happy to see me. Still, no matter what I said, I could not convince them to let me in to see what the base looked like. I must have been 9 or 10 years old at the time.

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#82 Post by Steve »

I just watched one of my all time favorite episodes again and have come up with the theory that TM not only did not take out Quang Ki as to not effect the possibility of more POW/MIA's being found, but also because as he spots Rockwell for the first time he sees that he is a Navy man.
Maggie told Magnum about the POW exchange and any interference with the exchange could effect further information and release of MIA's yet, Magnum still devises his plan regardless of the consequences. He even famously flings his time honored POW/MIA bracelet into the ground as to be removed from his plan and get into a "killing zone".
We see as Rockwell exits the helicopter and comes into Magnum's sight, TM's jaw drops ever so slightly (as only Selleck can magnificantly do) and I believe a flood of emotions and memories spring forth of a young TM losing his Navy Pilot father at about the same age as Rockwell's daughter received word of her fathers MIA status. Magnum wakes up from his out of body, hell bent on revenge state and does the proper thing and stands down.............

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#83 Post by MaximRecoil »

Jaybird wrote:In any case, if he took the shot that burlap on his muzzle would have done nothing but cause him to miss.
The cloth wrapped around the muzzle would have had a negligible effect on accuracy, as well as a negligible effect on the report. I don't know what the deal with that was. Earlier, when Magnum was shooting the lemons, he had something on there that could have passed for an actual silencer, at least by TV standards. Then when it comes time to shoot for real, he has a little bit of cloth wrapped around the end of the barrel, which has no significant sound-reducing function, and no other function that I know of. Did they misplace the "silencer" prop that they were using earlier?
Had he used a suppressor his round would have to be subsonic and that would have ruled out any long range shot.
Silencers can be, and are, used with supersonic cartridges. Nothing can be done about the "sonic crack" sound of course, but the report from the rapidly expanding gases escaping from the muzzle can still be reduced, the same as with subsonic cartridges, resulting in significantly less noise than if no silencer were used.

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Re: Unfinished Business (8.8)

#84 Post by Doc Fred »

I was stunned to see the enemy allowed to have weapons during the exchange... any thoughts about that?
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Re: Unfinished Business (8.8)

#85 Post by Doc Fred »

Had I been Magnum, after seeing the tape of my daughter and the woman I loved murdered by the p.o.s., I'd have offed him. I don't think there's any way I'd have been merciful as Thomas was. In addition, were I on a jury deciding the fate of someone like Magnum, if he had killed Ki, I'd have voted "innocent".
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Re: Unfinished Business (8.8)

#86 Post by ConchRepublican »

Doc Fred wrote:Had I been Magnum, after seeing the tape of my daughter and the woman I loved murdered by the p.o.s., I'd have offed him. I don't think there's any way I'd have been merciful as Thomas was. In addition, were I on a jury deciding the fate of someone like Magnum, if he had killed Ki, I'd have voted "innocent".
Seconded, on both counts.
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Re: Unfinished Business (8.8)

#87 Post by Doc Ibold »

Agreed, and I think he went in with every intention of doing it. When he got there (my speculation) his thought was that if he killed Ki, the exchange between Ki and the father wouldn't have gone off... And potentially the father could have been killed too right in front of his daughter in retaliation.

Had he not met with the daughter, I think he very well could have done it without a thought. And had he pulled the trigger, any other POW trades would never have happened and he held back for the greater good, for in doing so.. he would have put an end to any further reunions.

Killing Ki wouldn't bring Michelle or Lily back, and by not doing so, he ensured a reunion between father and daughter that (at the time) he wouldn't get to have with Lily.

I thought it was one of his best moments on the show to illuminate how much better he was as a man than Ki and prove to Lily (along with himself) he wasn't a cold blooded killer.

(Ignoring the 49 kills he had going in going into this episode)

:magnum:

And to be honest, along with Buck Greenes reaction at the end of the episode. I think it was this non-action alone that made Buck give up Lily to Magnum at the end of Resolutions. It showed that Magnum held Kis life in his hands, Buck knew it, yet Magnum didn't pull the trigger because of his obligation to the servicemen still over there. If anything, it once and for all proved to Buck that Magnum was a capable (yet deadly) soldier who was capable of great sacrifice, and not some slacker who resigned his commission.

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#88 Post by RamblerReb »

MaximRecoil wrote:
Jaybird wrote:In any case, if he took the shot that burlap on his muzzle would have done nothing but cause him to miss.
The cloth wrapped around the muzzle would have had a negligible effect on accuracy, as well as a negligible effect on the report. I don't know what the deal with that was. Earlier, when Magnum was shooting the lemons, he had something on there that could have passed for an actual silencer, at least by TV standards. Then when it comes time to shoot for real, he has a little bit of cloth wrapped around the end of the barrel, which has no significant sound-reducing function, and no other function that I know of. Did they misplace the "silencer" prop that they were using earlier?
Had he used a suppressor his round would have to be subsonic and that would have ruled out any long range shot.
Silencers can be, and are, used with supersonic cartridges. Nothing can be done about the "sonic crack" sound of course, but the report from the rapidly expanding gases escaping from the muzzle can still be reduced, the same as with subsonic cartridges, resulting in significantly less noise than if no silencer were used.
Personally, I think this was just laziness on the prop department's part; the cloth is supposed to be hiding the oil filter suppressor he was using earlier in the episode and, rather than wrap an oil filter up, they just stuck an Ace bandage on the muzzle and discounted the possibility that a bunch of obsessives with an excess of free time and near-unlimited digital storage would pick apart their career failures a quarter-century later.

What fools they were!
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Re: Unfinished Business (8.8)

#89 Post by Steve »

Doc Ibold wrote:Agreed, and I think he went in with every intention of doing it. When he got there (my speculation) his thought was that if he killed Ki, the exchange between Ki and the father wouldn't have gone off... And potentially the father could have been killed too right in front of his daughter in retaliation.

Had he not met with the daughter, I think he very well could have done it without a thought. And had he pulled the trigger, any other POW trades would never have happened and he held back for the greater good, for in doing so.. he would have put an end to any further reunions.

Killing Ki wouldn't bring Michelle or Lily back, and by not doing so, he ensured a reunion between father and daughter that (at the time) he wouldn't get to have with Lily.

I thought it was one of his best moments on the show to illuminate how much better he was as a man than Ki and prove to Lily (along with himself) he wasn't a cold blooded killer.

(Ignoring the 49 kills he had going in going into this episode)

:magnum:

And to be honest, along with Buck Greenes reaction at the end of the episode. I think it was this non-action alone that made Buck give up Lily to Magnum at the end of Resolutions. It showed that Magnum held Kis life in his hands, Buck knew it, yet Magnum didn't pull the trigger because of his obligation to the servicemen still over there. If anything, it once and for all proved to Buck that Magnum was a capable (yet deadly) soldier who was capable of great sacrifice, and not some slacker who resigned his commission.
I agree with Doc on this one. Magnum not pulling the trigger showed just how deep an impact the Viet Nam war, the MIA's, the camaraderie of those that went and his own experience as a POW came out in one brief decision. Selleck showed to me again what a great actor he is showing so many emotions without uttering a single line. He did this in so many episodes........

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Re: Unfinished Business (8.8)

#90 Post by 308GUY »

Steve wrote:I agree with Doc on this one. Magnum not pulling the trigger showed just how deep an impact the Viet Nam war, the MIA's, the camaraderie of those that went and his own experience as a POW came out in one brief decision. Selleck showed to me again what a great actor he is showing so many emotions without uttering a single line. He did this in so many episodes........
X2................:magnum:



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