Little Games (5.12)

Rate, review & discuss the episodes from the fifth season

Moderator: Styles Bitchley

How Would You Rate This Episode?

10 (Perfect!)
4
4%
9.5 (One of the Best)
10
11%
9.0 (Excellent)
24
26%
8.5 (Very Good)
20
22%
8.0 (Pretty Good)
24
26%
7.5 (Decent)
7
8%
7.0 (Average at Best)
2
2%
6.5 (Not So Good)
0
No votes
6.0 (Pretty Bad)
1
1%
5.0 (Just Awful)
1
1%
 
Total votes: 93

Message
Author
MaximRecoil
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 303
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:10 pm
Location: Maine, USA

#41 Post by MaximRecoil »

J.J. Walters wrote:That's true MR, but I think it would be a stretch to assume that he was playing a LaserDisc game with a keyboard in early 1985, even if he was playing it through Robin's $100,000 "Dracos III" computer.
Yes, very unlikely. But a LaserDisc game is the only way that game was possible, exactly as shown onscreen, in '85. With today's technology, you could easily replicate the look of hand-drawn animation with computer generated graphics, but in '85, they were still quite a ways off from being able to do that.
I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell there was nothing close to those kind of 3D graphics on a computer in 1984/1985. Dungeon Master was close, but that wasn't released until 1987!
Well, Dungeon Master was originally released for the Atari ST, and the ST came out in '85, so cheap home computer hardware was already capable of Dungeon Master graphics in '85. Custom hardware in '85 (such as was found in arcade machines) was well-ahead of home computer hardware in terms of graphics capabilities. But even with custom hardware in '85, something along the lines of Dungeon Master graphics or a little better is as good as you were going to get, though I don't really know what could be done if you invested $100K into custom hardware in '85. The custom hardware in arcade machines of the day amounted to about a thousand dollars' worth (that's what a replacement boardset generally cost back then).
By the way, I absolutely loved Dragon's Lair when I was a teenager. Oh the amount of quarters I dropped into that thing! :)
I never played it, but I do remember seeing it, right up front and center in Space Port when it was a new game. I was amazed at the "graphics", not realizing at the time that it was merely NTSC video being played, same as if you popped a movie on tape or disc into a player at home. However, it was the first arcade game to have a standard cost of $0.50 per play, and I thought that was outrageous. Fortunately, that didn't become a trend, not at that time anyway. It wasn't until Mortal Kombat came out in '92 that I actually payed $0.50 to play a video game (it was only $0.25 to continue, so that wasn't so bad).
Last edited by MaximRecoil on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Pahonu
Robin's Nest Expert Extraordinaire
Posts: 2618
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:19 am
Location: Long Beach CA

#42 Post by Pahonu »

J.J. Walters wrote:By the way, I absolutely loved Dragon's Lair when I was a teenager. Oh the amount of quarters I dropped into that thing! :)
Me too! I also played alot of the same type of game that came next: Space Ace.

User avatar
Kalai-pahoa
Captain
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:51 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#43 Post by Kalai-pahoa »

Help me!!! I'm addicted to the funniest scene of the entire series: Higgins yelling at Magnum because he crashed the security computer system 'Dracos III'. I ROFL every time and I can't stop to watch and re-watch it. Higgins yelling out loud is perfect and Magnum whimpering like scared of him is so hilarious.
The best exchange is when Higgins mocks Magnum's voice:
TM: It made me do it!
JH: IT WHAT???
TM: It made me do it!
JH: IT MADE YOU DO IT''?
:D
and also
Mac: Don't worry, Higgins, I'll have this thing reprogrammed before the competition.
JH: YOU TOLD HIM??? HIM??? (meaning 'this cheater?')
:lol: poor Higgins... You'd load the full mp3 file in the audio section.

However the episode is very good. I rated 9. This time Deborah Pratt is credited as Deborah M. Pratt Image

and probably Lenor Vandercliff knew something we still don't about some nazi war criminals:
Krista tells Magnum that maybe Lenor Vandercliff bought the Karachi from Martin Bormann in the late '50s.
But Bormann is believed to have died in May 1945 even though the circumstances of his death (committed suicide or escaped?) are unknown...
I know what you're thinking, but this time you're wrong.

Seaver41
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:46 pm

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#44 Post by Seaver41 »

pretty good episode. Nice to see Thomas get to show his stuff that makes him the security expert. I'd say a comfortable episode to watch with no major swings to the positive or negative.

dongiovanni
Ensign
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:47 am

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#45 Post by dongiovanni »

Enjoyed watching this episode again. Liked Krista tying knots in the climbing rope while having father/daughter chat. The 18oz steak would be enough for leftovers for zeus and Apollo.

BWheelz54
Admiral
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:24 am
Location: Hillsboro, Illinois

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#46 Post by BWheelz54 »

This episode is my favorite out of season 5. Even makes my top ten.

User avatar
Turkey
Admiral
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:06 pm
Location: Oz

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#47 Post by Turkey »

Great ep, I'd forgotten how much fun the final twist was.

Part of me wonders whether she'd have checked the box/case/felt the weight difference? But if she was stressed out about the job (as the episode set up earlier) then why not?

Poor Magnum, unlucky again
Make it two weeks.

User avatar
Little Garwood
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 1261
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:53 pm
Location: The Magnumverse

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#48 Post by Little Garwood »

Given his limited screen time, I would even "boldly" venture that Cesar Romero didn't make the trip to Hawaii for this episode. He has two scenes: the one in his and Krista's place. The second is in the dark--looking very studio-like--and surrounded by foliage as he's setting off the fireworks distraction.

I suppose that Cesar provided some "elder statesman" flair so that we at least get a look at who Krista's legendary cat burglar father is since he and his infamous reputation are mentioned a few times during the episode.
"Popularity is the pocket change of history."

~Tom Selleck

Mad Kudu Buck
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#49 Post by Mad Kudu Buck »

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but...

There are four episodes where we see the Dracos III and each time it has a different keyboard (and never plugged in). In this episode, it is a Kaypro 10 keyboard (full computer can be seen in this episode earlier as a "security terminal"). Then it becomes a Kaypro 16 keyboard (white keys). After that, an Amiga 1000. Finally, an IBM XT.

Closeups of the screen are usually of a Commodore 64. The "system crash" is 80 column, so probably from an IBM PC.

User avatar
J.J. Walters
Founding Father
Posts: 4196
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Suburbia, USA
Contact:

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#50 Post by J.J. Walters »

Mad Kudu Buck wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but...

There are four episodes where we see the Dracos III and each time it has a different keyboard (and never plugged in). In this episode, it is a Kaypro 10 keyboard (full computer can be seen in this episode earlier as a "security terminal"). Then it becomes a Kaypro 16 keyboard (white keys). After that, an Amiga 1000. Finally, an IBM XT.

Closeups of the screen are usually of a Commodore 64. The "system crash" is 80 column, so probably from an IBM PC.
Great 80's computer-related info there! So hilarious that the keyboards were never plugged in!

What are your thoughts on the "Dungeon Master" computer game visuals? I came to the conclusion that they were a "mock animation sequence, complete with original artwork, audio and text made to look like a real game." I based this on the style of the game animation, the year the episode was filmed (late 1984) and the obviously overdubbed audio. In the Episode Guide, I noted that the game visuals seemed to be "inspired by the classic, landmark 3D first-person perspective games 3D Monster Maze (1981) and Dungeons of Daggorath (1982).". I've been into computer games since 1983 (and know a fair amount about computer history and games) and have worked in IT for 20+ years, but I've never been entirely sure about my assessment of the "Dungeon Master" game seen in this episode. It's always intrigued me, especially considering the 1984 time period.

"Dungeon Master" computer game

Image
Image

Dracos III crash!
Image
Higgins: It's not a scratch! It's a bloody gouge!

marlboro
Baron Of GIFs
Posts: 655
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:31 pm

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#51 Post by marlboro »

Image

marlboro
Baron Of GIFs
Posts: 655
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:31 pm

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#52 Post by marlboro »

Actress Jenny Agutter, 59, awarded OBE


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... -work.html


Image


Anybody checked on the Crown Jewels lately?

Mad Kudu Buck
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#53 Post by Mad Kudu Buck »

J.J. Walters wrote:What are your thoughts on the "Dungeon Master" computer game visuals? I came to the conclusion that they were a "mock animation sequence, complete with original artwork, audio and text made to look like a real game." I based this on the style of the game animation, the year the episode was filmed (late 1984) and the obviously overdubbed audio. In the Episode Guide, I noted that the game visuals seemed to be "inspired by the classic, landmark 3D first-person perspective games 3D Monster Maze (1981) and Dungeons of Daggorath (1982).". I've been into computer games since 1983 (and know a fair amount about computer history and games) and have worked in IT for 20+ years, but I've never been entirely sure about my assessment of the "Dungeon Master" game seen in this episode. It's always intrigued me, especially considering the 1984 time period.
I actually wrote a bunch of video games back in 1984/85 and did lots of computer graphics.

Yes, you're right. The animation sequence is definitely faked - by someone who didn't know much about computer games. The resolution is far too high (no pixels seen, no jagged lines) and although it looks like limited colours, there are actually many shades - too many for most computers back then. If the computer had the ability to do such smooth scaling (when character moves up and down the corridor) and smooth animated flip (when character turns), then it could have easily had better character animation instead of that stupid skip it does (with annoying clacking shoes sound - actually far better sound than most computers at the time).

The dungeon master screen is reasonable looking so could be real graphics (or not) but the text countdown is probably a video overlay and not part of the computer graphics. The RIP Magnum screen looks real. At least they didn't fake the sound when Magnum types on the keyboard. I have the same keyboard and that's exactly how it sounds.

The real question is: why would an expensive security computer play video games at all? Computer games had to be compiled and written specifically for different computers back then. Why would anybody be writing and selling video games that ran only on this security computer? Why would a security computer have advanced graphics? The biggest question: why the hell would a security computer cost $100,000 and why would Robin Masters pay for it?

The only thing that makes sense is that the Dracos III is the security system, not just the computer - and that the whole system costs $100,000 and Robin is only renting the expensive bits for the jewellery competition. The Dracos III system uses an IBM PC as controller, with added cards for graphics, sound, etc. and that's how you can run some games on it. As for how it uses a Kaypro keyboard that isn't plugged in, I... don't really have an explanation for that. :D

Mad Kudu Buck
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#54 Post by Mad Kudu Buck »

J.J. Walters wrote:I noted that the game visuals seemed to be "inspired by the classic, landmark 3D first-person perspective games 3D Monster Maze (1981) and Dungeons of Daggorath (1982).".
Yes, there were plenty of wire-frame maze games back then. I used to play a game called Androne:

Image

It goes all the way back to 1973 and a game called Maze War:

Image


The 1987 Amiga game, Dungeon Master ended up looking pretty close to the Magnum one:

Image

...but I suppose a there are only so many ways a brick dungeon could look.

User avatar
J.J. Walters
Founding Father
Posts: 4196
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Suburbia, USA
Contact:

Re: Little Games (5.12)

#55 Post by J.J. Walters »

Mad Kudu Buck wrote:I actually wrote a bunch of video games back in 1984/85 and did lots of computer graphics.

Yes, you're right. The animation sequence is definitely faked - by someone who didn't know much about computer games. The resolution is far too high (no pixels seen, no jagged lines) and although it looks like limited colours, there are actually many shades - too many for most computers back then. If the computer had the ability to do such smooth scaling (when character moves up and down the corridor) and smooth animated flip (when character turns), then it could have easily had better character animation instead of that stupid skip it does (with annoying clacking shoes sound - actually far better sound than most computers at the time).

The dungeon master screen is reasonable looking so could be real graphics (or not) but the text countdown is probably a video overlay and not part of the computer graphics. The RIP Magnum screen looks real. At least they didn't fake the sound when Magnum types on the keyboard. I have the same keyboard and that's exactly how it sounds.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it! Good to know my conclusion was correct. 1984 was the year I got my first IBM PC. First game was The Ancient Art of War. Great game!
Mad Kudu Buck wrote:The real question is: why would an expensive security computer play video games at all? Computer games had to be compiled and written specifically for different computers back then. Why would anybody be writing and selling video games that ran only on this security computer? Why would a security computer have advanced graphics? The biggest question: why the hell would a security computer cost $100,000 and why would Robin Masters pay for it?

The only thing that makes sense is that the Dracos III is the security system, not just the computer - and that the whole system costs $100,000 and Robin is only renting the expensive bits for the jewellery competition. The Dracos III system uses an IBM PC as controller, with added cards for graphics, sound, etc. and that's how you can run some games on it. As for how it uses a Kaypro keyboard that isn't plugged in, I... don't really have an explanation for that. :D
LOL! :lol: I guess the retcon answer would be: Because Robin Masters made it so! He had the money, the means, and the connections to make it happen. He even put in R&D money to develop the worlds first wireless keyboard! Unfortunately, the prototype was destroyed by Magnum by a spilled beer. :)
Higgins: It's not a scratch! It's a bloody gouge!

Post Reply