China Doll (1.3)

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How Would You Rate This Episode?

10 (Perfect!)
8
6%
9.5 (One of the Best)
22
15%
9.0 (Excellent)
36
25%
8.5 (Very Good)
36
25%
8.0 (Pretty Good)
26
18%
7.5 (Decent)
8
6%
7.0 (Average at Best)
4
3%
6.5 (Not So Good)
0
No votes
6.0 (Pretty Bad)
2
1%
5.0 (Just Awful)
2
1%
 
Total votes: 144

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Danny Lin
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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#141 Post by Danny Lin »

On the "empty passenger seat in the chopper flub":

The episode guide says (#6 in the flub section):
"In part of the same scene as flub #5, for a brief moment you only see one person in chopper (the pilot). The passenger seat (Magnum's seat) is suddenly empty."

Flub #5 refers to the scene in which Magnum and TC approach Kauai at the beginning of the episode. Nowhere during that scene I can spot a moment at which the passenger seat is empty.

But when Magnum and TC approach Kauai for the second time during the episode (close to the end), right when Magnum says: "She wasn´t planting flowers, she was hiding the vase!" the helicopter is seen from the outside. It turns and the sunlight falling onto the passenger seat proves it to be empty.
... Then I'm history... Walking history... I'll be just another chapter in one of those dumb books Louise Peardon makes me read: "Prince Danny Lin, assassinated July." ...

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Re: Re:

#142 Post by Danny Lin »

Danny Lin wrote:On the "no passenger"-flub:
Pahonu wrote:
...

By the way, the flub mentioned in the episode guide about the Ferrari leaving the KKC with only the driver might be wrong. Look closely, the Ferrari is driving on the left side of the (divided) road and it looks like Magnum's head sticking up a little above the roof but on the right. I think they flipped the negative so we are looking at a mirror image. The head on the left would be the girl. It's at about 27:08.

What do you think?
Here we need to distinguish the scene in which Magnum turns in on the main road from the scene after the next cut, showing him just driving down the road (on the left side as you mentioned, Pahonu).
The flub from the episode guide refers to the scene when Magnum turns in on the road. Anyway in fact there is no flub. If you watch carefully you will see the head of the person sitting in the passenger seat, even without using the pause button. Using the pause button it gets clear that there´s someone sitting in the passenger seat.

On the next scene, where the car drives on the left of the divided road and the driver is seen on the right: That seems to be the same thing as in "Don´t eat the snow in Hawaii", when the letters on the helicopter are reversed. As someone suggested for the helicopter scene even in the scene from "China Doll" the vehicle probably was needed to move in the other direction on screen than it in fact was filmed like. So they just reversed the film.
I just found another sequence probably shot at the same day from the same position as the aforementioned reversed sequence: It is used in Jororo Farewell, when Magnum Follows the Prince´s Limousine from the practise game to the estate. One can see that the road is filmed from the same position. The road doesn´t turn right as in "China Doll" (there reversed), but left. From the shadows of the trees and bushes falling over the road you can see that the shots probably were made at the same time and day.
Unlike in "Jororo Farewell" the Ferrari comes from down the road and drives at the camera. They probably had someone driving up and down the road several times in order to produce some stock footage.
... Then I'm history... Walking history... I'll be just another chapter in one of those dumb books Louise Peardon makes me read: "Prince Danny Lin, assassinated July." ...

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Re:

#143 Post by Mad Kudu Buck »

J.J. Walters wrote:Check it out, MPI creator/exec. producer/writer Don Bellisario (circa 1980) appears briefly in the opening credits...

Image

Thanks to Pete W. for pointing this out!
Damn it. I just spotted this now while watching the episode and I thought I was the first person to discover this.

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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#144 Post by ENSHealy »

1.3 CHINA DOLL
Hawaiian shirts: 2 - cream colored base with light green leaves, red flowers; red jungle bird.
Island Hopper shirts: 2 - dark green with white logo, light blue with dark blue logo.
Body Count: 3 - Sailor, Cousin Ho, Choi
Shirtless: 0
Little Voice: 0
I know what you’re thinking: 0
When I write HTBAWCPI: 0
Investigator corrections: 1
Magnum injuries: 2 throwing star to the hand, kick to the knee requiring use of a cane.
Higgins musings: 1
4th wall breaks: 3 - 2 Magnum, 1 Higgins
Negotiations: 0
Famous guest stars: 0
Magnumometer: 14

There is so much going on in this episode! It may take more than one post to address it all.

First, I would like to nominate Danny Lin for promotion to Fleet Admiral. His flub and flub-busting observations on this episode are 5-star caliber!

Second, I've got to say I'm a bit stunned that after 10 pages of forum commentary, nobody has pointed out the most obvious and undoubtedly correct reason for Tom Selleck's Uncle Ho flub: Uncle Ho = Ho Chi Minh. For verification (not that any was really needed) I googled "Uncle Ho" and guess who the first result was? It would seem like a pretty logical slip of the tongue for a Vietnam vet!!

I know that I am probably mentally corrupted by having been 16 years old when Ball Room Days hit the charts, and I know that the martial art has been correctly referred to here as Wing Chun, but when Choi says it just before exiting through the Hubba Hubba beads, it sure sounds like he says Wang Chung. Talk amongst yourselves.

Script flub: Why does Higgins feel the need to change the safe combination when Magnum only turned the pheasant to reveal the safe's location, he didn't actually open the safe? And by his own comments moments later, we know Magnum didn't actually know the combination until he watched Higgins open the safe right then. This seems like a really out of character failure of deduction on Higgin's part. (Of course we find out later that TM can crack the safe, as presumably the combination was changed before TM stashed the dolls in it, but Higgins can't have known that at the time.)

Geographic flub: at 43:30 when TM and TC are supposedly flying over Kauai, Rabbit Island is clearly seen in the background behind the chopper.

Episode Guide error: the episode guide says "In 1962 in Cairo, Higgins was briefly attached to the British Museum there and learned a thing or two about repairing vases." However, in the episode, Higgins actually says "During the war I was attached to the British Museum in Cairo for a brief stint." For Higgins, "the war" could only be WWII.

CRUCIAL CONVERSATIONS:

Magnum: Not coming back with us, huh?
TC: Gas money.
Magnum: What?
TC: Thomas, I am going to Monkey Pete's for a beer. When I get back, I want those gas tanks topped off and the gas paid for. You got it?
Magnum: Don't you think you ought to use a half hitch there?
TC: You can backstroke to Oahu.

Mai Ling: I'm going to Oahu with you for the weekend.
Magnum: You are?
Mai Ling: Of course, I intend to pay.
Magnum: What for?
Mai Ling: For your services.
Magnum: To protect the vase you're carrying...
Mai Ling: You are a private eye, aren't you?
Magnum: Well, I prefer "private investigator.'' I also prefer to be asked.

Mai Ling: You have unusual friends.
Magnum: I guess you could call Rick that.
Mai Ling: Not just Rick. T.C., Higgins.
Magnum: I wouldn't exactly call Higgins a friend.

Higgins: I hope you don't mind. I've been trying to piece this Ming version back together.
Mai Ling: This is very good.
Higgins: During the war I was attached to the British Museum in Cairo for a brief stint. Learned a thing or two.
Magnum: You never told me that.
Higgins: I don't tell you many things. Which reminds me. The combination to the safe has been changed...to keep undesirables out.
Magnum: Well, a dinner for two at the club says I can get in and out without you knowing it.
Higgins: [ Chuckles ] Impossible.
Magnum: Is it a bet?
Higgins: It's a bet.
Magnum: Come along, Mai Ling. Dinner is on Higgins tonight.
Higgins: You'll have to get into the safe first, Magnum.
Magnum: I know.
Higgins: [Opens safe and sees “Hi guy” sign on geisha dolls inside safe.] Zeus, Apollo, kill!
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K Hale
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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#145 Post by K Hale »

ENSHealy wrote: Script flub: Why does Higgins feel the need to change the safe combination when Magnum only turned the pheasant to reveal the safe's location, he didn't actually open the safe? And by his own comments moments later, we know Magnum didn't actually know the combination until he watched Higgins open the safe right then. This seems like a really out of character failure of deduction on Higgin's part. (Of course we find out later that TM can crack the safe, as presumably the combination was changed before TM stashed the dolls in it, but Higgins can't have known that at the time.)
I noticed this myself and agree it's a script flub, having Higgins jump to the conclusion that Magnum knew the combination when all he knew was that you can move the painting by turning the pheasant. I feel like this wouldn't have happened later in the series.
Episode Guide error: the episode guide says "In 1962 in Cairo, Higgins was briefly attached to the British Museum there and learned a thing or two about repairing vases." However, in the episode, Higgins actually says "During the war I was attached to the British Museum in Cairo for a brief stint." For Higgins, "the war" could only be WWII.
This is a stretch, but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Yem ... %80%931965

But it's far more likely to just be an error. From his conversation with Jenny in "Tropical Madness," we do know Higgins was in Cairo early in WW2 recovering from injuries.
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Re: Magnum Trademark Scene

#146 Post by ENSHealy »

eegorr wrote:I was wondering if someone who had this episode on DVD could post pictures from the two scenes or at least compare them to see if they were just reverse prints of each other or the scene was actually shot twice. It looks to me like they are different, but it is hard to tell without looking at them side-by-side.

Also, which of the scenes is used later in the lead-in? I think it is the one where he looks over his right shoulder, or one shot with the same orientation.
This is tough to decipher. There were some photos posted earlier on in this thread, but the links are now broken. The three shots are not exactly the same. When TM and Mai Ling begin to leave the study, TM turns to his RIGHT, lifts the eyebrows TWICE, and says "I know." Then Higgins opens the safe. The episode closes with a shot of TM turning LEFT, and the shot freezes in the middle of an eyebrow raise. So we don't know if at the end he only lifts the eyebrows once, or they just froze the frame before the second lift. In the opening credits sequence, it's two full lifts to the RIGHT. If we are to assume no negative reversals, the opening credit scene is the same as the initial still-in-the-den shot from the end of the episode, with a shorter second "I got Higgins, didn't I?" one eyebrow lift final shot.

Here are the photos side by side. First row: TM and Mai Ling leaving the study, before Higgins opens the safe. The second occurs after Higgins yells "Zeus...Apollo...kill!" In theory at least, the second shot shows TM outside the study, but given the lighting, both shots were probably done at the same time. I still have my doubts about whether the editors would intentionally use a reversed negative shot. Perhaps someone with more inside industry info can clarify whether this is an actual practice or not.

The third row of shots is the last three frames of the lead-in/opening credits. So the three sets of captures were taken at 3 separate places in China Doll. Doesn't mean they aren't all from the same negatives though.

I would say it is too close to call.

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage
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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#147 Post by ENSHealy »

K Hale wrote:
ENSHealy wrote: Script flub: Why does Higgins feel the need to change the safe combination when Magnum only turned the pheasant to reveal the safe's location, he didn't actually open the safe? And by his own comments moments later, we know Magnum didn't actually know the combination until he watched Higgins open the safe right then. This seems like a really out of character failure of deduction on Higgin's part. (Of course we find out later that TM can crack the safe, as presumably the combination was changed before TM stashed the dolls in it, but Higgins can't have known that at the time.)
I noticed this myself and agree it's a script flub, having Higgins jump to the conclusion that Magnum knew the combination when all he knew was that you can move the painting by turning the pheasant. I feel like this wouldn't have happened later in the series.
Episode Guide error: the episode guide says "In 1962 in Cairo, Higgins was briefly attached to the British Museum there and learned a thing or two about repairing vases." However, in the episode, Higgins actually says "During the war I was attached to the British Museum in Cairo for a brief stint." For Higgins, "the war" could only be WWII.
This is a stretch, but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Yem ... %80%931965

But it's far more likely to just be an error. From his conversation with Jenny in "Tropical Madness," we do know Higgins was in Cairo early in WW2 recovering from injuries.
Only James can tell us for sure where he got 1962, but perhaps it is a typo for 1942. El Alamein was in October and November of 1942. Although that would be oddly specific as the North African campaign ran from 1940-1943 and Higgins just says "during the war."

What say you, James?
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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#148 Post by K Hale »

Regarding the possible reversed images above, in my opinion it is a reversed image, judging by the light reflections in his hair. They are identical in the left and right images.
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Re: Re:

#149 Post by ENSHealy »

Danny Lin wrote:On the "no passenger"-flub:
Pahonu wrote:
...

By the way, the flub mentioned in the episode guide about the Ferrari leaving the KKC with only the driver might be wrong. Look closely, the Ferrari is driving on the left side of the (divided) road and it looks like Magnum's head sticking up a little above the roof but on the right. I think they flipped the negative so we are looking at a mirror image. The head on the left would be the girl. It's at about 27:08.

What do you think?
Here we need to distinguish the scene in which Magnum turns in on the main road from the scene after the next cut, showing him just driving down the road (on the left side as you mentioned, Pahonu).
The flub from the episode guide refers to the scene when Magnum turns in on the road. Anyway in fact there is no flub. If you watch carefully you will see the head of the person sitting in the passenger seat, even without using the pause button. Using the pause button it gets clear that there´s someone sitting in the passenger seat.

On the next scene, where the car drives on the left of the divided road and the driver is seen on the right: That seems to be the same thing as in "Don´t eat the snow in Hawaii", when the letters on the helicopter are reversed. As someone suggested for the helicopter scene even in the scene from "China Doll" the vehicle probably was needed to move in the other direction on screen than it in fact was filmed like. So they just reversed the film.
I pulled some screen captures to clarify things.

I have to disagree with Danny Lin's statement above "Anyway in fact there is no flub. If you watch carefully you will see the head of the person sitting in the passenger seat, even without using the pause button. Using the pause button it gets clear that there´s someone sitting in the passenger seat." You can clearly see that 1) it is TS's double that is driving the Ferrari (good work if you can get it) and 2) there is no Mai Ling (or anyone else) in the passenger seat. So that is a flub.

ImageImageImage

The following shot is a reversed negative, as you can see that "ROBIN 1" is backwards, with the 1 on the left, and the "GTS" badge is also on the left, not the right as it actually is. And of course the driver is on the right and is driving on the left hand side of the road. In the second pic, you can clearly see there is no passenger. The two shots may not be "back to back" in real life, but they both contain the same "missing passenger" flub.

Also, a note about the reversal of the image. Danny said "the vehicle probably was needed to move in the other direction on screen than it in fact was filmed like. So they just reversed the film." However, in a negative reversal, the car wouldn't be moving in the other direction (toward us) it would just be on the other side of the road (but still moving away from us). I can't see a reason to intentionally reverse the negative unless they needed to make it seem as if the scene had taken place in a "drive on the left" locale.

ImageImage
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Re: Magnum Trademark Scene

#150 Post by karolis »

ENSHealy wrote:
eegorr wrote:I was wondering if someone who had this episode on DVD could post pictures from the two scenes or at least compare them to see if they were just reverse prints of each other or the scene was actually shot twice. It looks to me like they are different, but it is hard to tell without looking at them side-by-side.

Also, which of the scenes is used later in the lead-in? I think it is the one where he looks over his right shoulder, or one shot with the same orientation.
This is tough to decipher. There were some photos posted earlier on in this thread, but the links are now broken. The three shots are not exactly the same. When TM and Mai Ling begin to leave the study, TM turns to his RIGHT, lifts the eyebrows TWICE, and says "I know." Then Higgins opens the safe. The episode closes with a shot of TM turning LEFT, and the shot freezes in the middle of an eyebrow raise. So we don't know if at the end he only lifts the eyebrows once, or they just froze the frame before the second lift. In the opening credits sequence, it's two full lifts to the RIGHT. If we are to assume no negative reversals, the opening credit scene is the same as the initial still-in-the-den shot from the end of the episode, with a shorter second "I got Higgins, didn't I?" one eyebrow lift final shot.

Here are the photos side by side. First row: TM and Mai Ling leaving the study, before Higgins opens the safe. The second occurs after Higgins yells "Zeus...Apollo...kill!" In theory at least, the second shot shows TM outside the study, but given the lighting, both shots were probably done at the same time. I still have my doubts about whether the editors would intentionally use a reversed negative shot. Perhaps someone with more inside industry info can clarify whether this is an actual practice or not.

The third row of shots is the last three frames of the lead-in/opening credits. So the three sets of captures were taken at 3 separate places in China Doll. Doesn't mean they aren't all from the same negatives though.

I would say it is too close to call.

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage

I compared the middle photos of each row in Photoshop, flipped them to face the same direction. Row 1 and 3 - 100% the same, the difference is that the one in the 3rd row is more yellow. The second one looks really close to the 1st and 3rd, just a little bit rotated and Magnum is caught in a little bit different position (while turning to look at the camera).

Image

My conclusion is that it is the same image - just reversed and with a little bit of different color grading.

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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#151 Post by ENSHealy »

OK, I think we've got a genuine mystery here, or at the very least I can't get my head round it. Pasted below are screen captures from the Chinese Typewriter where we can clearly identify 3 sailboats, a woman in a peach bikini and a dude in light blue shorts.

Then, after that, a picture from China Doll, with TM wearing the Tigers cap, that also shows the 3 sailboats, the woman and the man.

The former from a TV movie that supposedly aired in 1979, the latter from a TV episode filmed in the second half of 1980.

The sails on the sailboats are very similar, but not identical. They could just be boats owned by businesses in Waikiki that were there on both days. The images of bikini woman and blue shorts guy are not clear in enough in both sets of footage to positively verify they are the same people. But given all that we've seen about the producers willingness to live with continuity flubs and reversed negatives, it seems implausible that they would have gone to the trouble to find and costume two extras to match up with 5 seconds of stock footage from a previously aired TV movie. So what gives?

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#152 Post by ENSHealy »

Initially I thought this was a flub, being Rabbit Island when they were supposedly flying over Kauai, but now I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#153 Post by ENSHealy »

And last but not least: How many frames does it take for a throwing star to cross the path of a private investigator? 3. I believe that's 1/8 of a second for those of you scoring at home.

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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#154 Post by Rembrandt's Girl »

ENSHealy wrote:Initially I thought this was a flub, being Rabbit Island when they were supposedly flying over Kauai, but now I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

Image
I've got this one for ya', ENSHealy...

They're not in front of Rabbit Island, they're in front of the Mokolua Islands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na_Mokulua) which looks like one island in your screen cap because of the angle, and that's Marine Corps Base Hawaii at Kaneohe in the distance. In my screen cap the red X is the chopper and the red arrow is showing the direction of your pic's view. Pahonu is circled bottom left, and Rabbit Island bottom right...

Image

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Re: China Doll (1.3)

#155 Post by ENSHealy »

Good work, RG! Looks like you are spot-on. So, still a "flub" although one of convenience, or "suspension of disbelief" as opposed to a genuine something-slipped-through flub. As we've often said, the producers definitely didn't count on DVR/DVD freeze frame capability and legions of obsessed fans with way too much leisure time.
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