China Doll (1.3)

Rate, review & discuss the episodes from the first season

Moderator: Styles Bitchley

Post Reply

How Would You Rate This Episode?

10 (Perfect!)
8
6%
9.5 (One of the Best)
22
15%
9.0 (Excellent)
36
25%
8.5 (Very Good)
36
25%
8.0 (Pretty Good)
26
18%
7.5 (Decent)
8
6%
7.0 (Average at Best)
4
3%
6.5 (Not So Good)
0
No votes
6.0 (Pretty Bad)
2
1%
5.0 (Just Awful)
2
1%
 
Total votes: 144

Message
Author
User avatar
SelleckLover
RENLEDUN, Protectrix of the Realm
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Sunny Southern California
Contact:

FLUBS AND CONTINUITY ERRORS

#11 Post by SelleckLover »

I think I can shed some light on the subject of flubs and continuity errors. Back in the early 1980's almost no one had a VCR. You watched an episode one time and maybe you might see it one more time in reruns during the summer. By the time you saw the rerun, most of the episode flubs were forgotten, if any were detected. After the summer was over and the new season started, you never saw the previous season's episodes....EVER! We didn't have video tapes and DVD's to watch over and over again. If you wanted to watch a certain TV show, you literally had to plan your life around it. Just thought I'd share! =)

User avatar
eegorr
Vice Admiral
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:34 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ (it's a dry heat... LOL!)

Re: FLUBS AND CONTINUITY ERRORS

#12 Post by eegorr »

SelleckLover wrote:I think I can shed some light on the subject of flubs and continuity errors. Back in the early 1980's almost no one had a VCR...
That explains why hardly anybody noticed them, but not how they came to be. In the days before the IBM PC and MS-DOS, scripts were mostly typewritten, so proof-reading was done by hand. Even the dedicated word-processors that were available at the time had minimal proof-reading capability, if any.

Today, no doubt, there is special software written to comb a script for inconsistencies. The truly amazing thing is that flubs still abound, even in the 21st century! :lol:

User avatar
Shermy
Resident Clutterbuck
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:03 am

Re: FLUBS AND CONTINUITY ERRORS

#13 Post by Shermy »

SelleckLover wrote:Back in the early 1980's almost no one had a VCR. You watched an episode one time and maybe you might see it one more time in reruns during the summer.
This surely affected the mindset of the show's creators as well. You know the audience isn't going to be heavily scrutinizing each episode, so it's easier to treat each script as its own story. (For example, so what if T.C. contradicts something he did back in season two?)

The original Star Trek is filled with such flubs in continuity, and the actors would often point them out to the director. Of course, the director's usual response was "no one will really notice".

But even more than dvd, the internet has really led to continuity becoming a huge issue. I'm sure the writers of something like Lost or Heroes really feel the pressure to make sure all of their t's are crossed. :lol:

User avatar
IslandHopper
Master Flub Spotter
Posts: 729
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:08 am

#14 Post by IslandHopper »

Oh, there are still plenty of flubs around today. I was watching Braveheart (1995) last night on TV and in the big battle scene with the English, Mel Gibson's character is leading a charge on the English forces running full speed. One clip shows him running full speed with his sword drawn ready to swing and then the scene immediately cuts to Mel Gibson running like a sprinter with no sword in his hand. I'm sure he didn't re-sheath his sword in a full sprint prior to engaging the English soldiers.

You can watch any movie or tv show and find flubs, especially in scenes where there are car chases and such, e.g., in one scene the car will be damaged severely on the left side after crashing into something, and then as it drives away there is no damage. If these flubs are caught by the editors, I'm sure they must decide from an economical stand point whether to re-shoot the scene or just let it go, as most people will never notice the flub.
The answer is obvious, old man. Logic is irrelevant. It's simply Tropical Madness. (J.Q. Higgins)

User avatar
Shermy
Resident Clutterbuck
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:03 am

#15 Post by Shermy »

Not really a flub, but I always found this amusing:

When Magnum returns to the graveyard to search for the buried vase, pay attention to the soundtrack. For some reason, Magnum suddenly turns bionic! This may explain his ability to withstand Choi's attack. :lol:

User avatar
IslandHopper
Master Flub Spotter
Posts: 729
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:08 am

#16 Post by IslandHopper »

Shermy wrote:Not really a flub, but I always found this amusing:

When Magnum returns to the graveyard to search for the buried vase, pay attention to the soundtrack. For some reason, Magnum suddenly turns bionic! This may explain his ability to withstand Choi's attack. :lol:
I have noticed this too Shermy, and I have never heard it again in any other Magnum episode. It brings back memories of The Six Million Dollar Man. Was The Six Million Dollar Man a Universal show also? :? I always associated that particular sound to that show, kind of like a trademark of that show. You would think MPI would need permission to use that sound if both shows weren't from the same motion picture company (e.g. Universal).
The answer is obvious, old man. Logic is irrelevant. It's simply Tropical Madness. (J.Q. Higgins)

User avatar
J.J. Walters
Founding Father
Posts: 4196
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Suburbia, USA
Contact:

#17 Post by J.J. Walters »

That's hysterical! The Six Million Dollar Man "bionic" sound in MPI! I never noticed it before, for some reason. :? And it occurs not once, but twice! During the second one, Magnum almost seems startled by it! You hear the "bionic" sound, then Magnum kind of looks in one direction with a strange look on his face, almost like he's thinking, "What the heck was that?" Hehe

IH, Yeah, SMDM is a Universal show. A show which, interestingly enough, has had the first two seasons released on DVD in Region 2, but nothing in Region 1. Strange. Glen A. Larson produced the first two SMDM movies.

One of my favorite 70s shows, for sure. You gotta love Lee Majors!
Higgins: It's not a scratch! It's a bloody gouge!

User avatar
golfmobile
Chopper Pilot Wannabe
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:47 pm
Location: Atlanta area
Contact:

#18 Post by golfmobile »

I saw the last half of this one tonight, and I was struck by how at the last scene in the cemetery, Magnum shoots Choi point-blank -- very similar to the later Ivan scene. So, in a way, TM was executing an "unarmed" man, though I'm sure Choi's martial arts skills would make his hands "lethal weapons."

On another note with respect to this scene, I believe that there is no way a skilled martial arts guy like Choi would let his attention be distracted away from TM, the potential enemy on the ground right in front of him, to look up at TC's chopper, and particularly not for the length of time his attention was distracted (about 3 full seconds). That looked really "set up" to me -- just to allow TM to get the .45.

And on this note also, TM was hit on his right hand with the flying star. So again, he had to use his left hand to fire the .45. Memories of bringing Ivan out of the limo with the gun in TM's left hand, but then he shoots Ivan with his right hand. Must be ambi-dextrous with hand guns!

As to the question here about the shirt: I have the one being sold currently as the Magnum shirt, along with some other pieces of clothing with the same fabric. Now that I look at it closely, it is NOT the same. It is DARNED close, but the one being sold these days does not have the same pattern of yellow/gold philodendron leaves on the shirt shown in these pictures (snapped of the show on TV tonight), and his gold/yellow leaves are more prevalent, while my shirt has more prevalent teal palm fronds, and HIS parrots seem to have white heads (with their wings extended) that my purple parrots are missing (NOT missing their heads, just that their heads aren't white) (and, I just noticed, on the back of his shirt, he seems to have some white antheriums that my shirt doesn't have):

Image

My shirt:

Image

As for the double-head turn, I think it's two different shots. The lighting looks different on each. Here they are side by side:

Image

and a single one of the over-the-left-shoulder (the one not used in the intro -- and, boy, does he look drunk in this one -- I caught his eyes in a near-blink)

Image

However, the more I study these in details, I could see how they MAY be mirror shots. The pattern on the shirt and most of the shadows look mirror. I don't know if a lighting change occurred when the film was flipped over, but, still, to me, his face looks "fuller" in the left shoulder shot, a little more double chin? Yet the same highlighting of lights on the SAME locks of hair on both sides? Near EXACT same head angle? Shoot, the more I study it, the more I go for the flipped film option. But the second shot was stopped in the middle of the eyebrow wiggle, so it looked different at the time. Sheesh, I don't know! But now looking at the shadows on the chin, I think not. Someone else vote here!

Also, on this one, the closing music is the "old" music, so this is one episode syndicated on TV that does not have the music changed (the intro does have the Mike Post music dubbed in).
"Portside, buddy."

User avatar
J.J. Walters
Founding Father
Posts: 4196
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Suburbia, USA
Contact:

#19 Post by J.J. Walters »

Wow, I never noticed the two different head-turning "look backs" in this episode! And in the same scene, no less! :shock:

Regarding Magnum's "execution" of Choi, in his defense, he was lying on his back, with Choi directly above him, fist clinched. And he only shot him after he blinked his eyes. Remember, he always blinks before he strikes!
Higgins: It's not a scratch! It's a bloody gouge!

User avatar
rubber chicken
Master Location Sleuth
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:53 am
Location: Great Lakes region

#20 Post by rubber chicken »

I found the cemetery used in this episode. It's the Manoa Chinese Cemetery or just Manoa Cemetery, located north east of Waikiki in the Manoa Valley. It was begun by Chinese immigrants in 1852, but people from any background can be buried there. It's the oldest and largest cemetery in Hawaii. (gm link)
Image

Some info....

From this page: "In 1852, a Chinese immigrant named Lum Ching hiked up the valley with a friend and came to Akaka Peak. There they discovered a beautiful view from the valley to the sea. Lum Ching, with freshly acquired knowledge of an astronomy/ geology-based study called "kuni yee hok," had with him two instruments, a compass and a light reflecting mirror. He carefully placed the compass on a level surface and to his surprise, the compass pointed directly south. He did further calculations using his mirror and compass and then exclaimed to his friend, "We are at an extraordinary spot. It is the pulse of the watchful dragon of the valley. People from all directions will come from across the seas and gather here to pay homage. Birds, too, will come to sing and roost. It is a haven suitable for the living as well as the dead. The Chinese people must buy this area and keep it as sacred ground."

"The Chinese community did buy the "dragon's pulse." The land was purchased gradually, starting in 1852, from former land owners, Ahu, Kulani, Rice and the Bishop Estate. The present day cemetery encompasses thirty-four acres of Manoa Valley."

And from this page: "Notable grave sites include that of Chan Apana, the bullwhip-toting Honolulu policeman who was the model for fictional Charlie Chan [...]"

How fitting! The inspiration for one of the earliest pop culture Private Investigators lies buried where another great P.I. films a show 50 years later.

More about Chan Apana from this page (might want to turn off your sound): "He was the inspiration for the fictional sleuth Charlie Chan. The son of Chinese immigrants, he worked as a cowboy on Oahu before joining the new Honolulu Police Department in 1898. Carrying a whip instead of a gun, he often led the force in arrests and became Hawaii's most famous cop. During his 34-year career Apana was stabbed six times, thrown out of a second-story window, run over with a horse and buggy, attacked with machetes, and bludgeoned with an axe handle; on each occasion the wounded detective managed to apprehend his suspect." Here's his Wiki page.

Here's a virtual reality quicktime display of three parts of the cemetery.
Last edited by rubber chicken on Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
J.J. Walters
Founding Father
Posts: 4196
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Suburbia, USA
Contact:

#21 Post by J.J. Walters »

rubber chicken wrote:And from this page: "Notable grave sites include that of Chan Apana, the bullwhip-toting Honolulu policeman who was the model for fictional Charlie Chan [...]"

How fitting! The inspiration for one of the earliest pop culture Private Investigators lies buried where another great P.I. films a show 50 years later.
Very, very interesting! Thanks again RC! :)
Higgins: It's not a scratch! It's a bloody gouge!

User avatar
Carol the Dabbler
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: A Great Episode! Did You Notice The Flub?

#22 Post by Carol the Dabbler »

eegorr wrote:Ho could be her cousin or her uncle. I don't think there was any other mention of him, and it is more likely that Selleck screwed up memorized dialog (when he referred to Ho as her cousin) than narration, unless there was a problem with the script.
I prefer to think that *Magnum* misspoke one time or the other. As we all know, it's his little flaws that make him such an interesting character!

User avatar
Carol the Dabbler
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: FLUBS AND CONTINUITY ERRORS

#23 Post by Carol the Dabbler »

Shermy wrote:
SelleckLover wrote:Back in the early 1980's almost no one had a VCR. You watched an episode one time and maybe you might see it one more time in reruns during the summer.
This surely affected the mindset of the show's creators as well. .... The original Star Trek is filled with such flubs in continuity, and the actors would often point them out to the director. Of course, the director's usual response was "no one will really notice".

But even more than dvd, the internet has really led to continuity becoming a huge issue.
Most VERY early television was done live, not recorded in any way. Then came kinescopes (films made with a special movie camera / tv monitor hookup), and the summer rerun was born, enabling viewers to say, "See, I told you he flubbed that line!" (Filmed series like I Love Lucy and the later introduction of videotape simply made for better-quality reruns.)

The first really big increase in the viewer's ability to notice continuity errors came with syndication. See an episode only once or twice, and (as SL notes) you're not likely to remember it in great detail. But see the same episode every 16 weeks (as we Star Trek fans did during 70's syndication), and pretty soon you have it memorized.

But I agree, VCR's, DVD's, and the Internet have raised the ante again!

User avatar
lutherhgillis
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:54 pm

#24 Post by lutherhgillis »

I find it remarkable that MPI kept the level of continuity at its highest. Except for a few things, it remained true to its previous years. This is a testimony to the quality of the show's actors, writers, and producers...

Back then I'm sure they had no idea we would be watching every episode with such scrutiny :wink:

User avatar
IslandHopper
Master Flub Spotter
Posts: 729
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:08 am

#25 Post by IslandHopper »

I think one of the reasons why there were so many continuity errors is that the show had many different writers over the course of eight years. I guess the show had someone dedicated to continuity to consult with the various writers, but there were a ton of these type of errors.
The answer is obvious, old man. Logic is irrelevant. It's simply Tropical Madness. (J.Q. Higgins)

Post Reply