Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

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How Would You Rate This Episode?

10 (Perfect!)
1
1%
9.5 (One of the Best)
15
11%
9.0 (Excellent)
40
30%
8.5 (Very Good)
34
26%
8.0 (Pretty Good)
24
18%
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10
8%
7.0 (Average at Best)
5
4%
6.5 (Not So Good)
2
2%
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Total votes: 132

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Pahonu
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Re: Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

#91 Post by Pahonu »

Ronbo710 wrote:There was DEFINITELY a gun shot heard at the end of this episode. When Elena confronts Magnum at the end with the scalpal. It switched to the exterior boat scene just before the gun went off. WHY the dvds don't have this AND it has been erased from future broadcasts I can only surmise to soften the image of Tom. But I know for a fact this was heard here. This scene and the scene where Magnum kills Ivan are two of the GREATEST justices in TV show history in my opinion.
I actually remember reading a few years back about people being confused about the ending and not understanding the confusion. I too, clearly remember a gunshot in the scene, and it seemed obvious what had happened. I wonder why it was removed, especially considering the much more explicit ending to Did You See the Sunrise?

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Re: Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

#92 Post by charybdis1966 »

I saw this last night for the first time since it's showing in the 80's and I remembered they're being a twist, but not exactly what it was.

As for the denouemont, I'm split 50:50. The finality of the way Lena says "yes, it IS over" makes me think either it was a resigned "I might as well end it" message and she decided to kill herself and she realises if she tries to charge at TM with the scalpel she will probably get shot OR she charges TM who shoots her dead.

The latter is unsatisfactory as others have said that TM should be able to disarm an old lady so maybe she just cut her own throat.

The fact that the next scene cuts away to a long shot of the boat suggests that there was a gun shot in the original airing so to dub it out on subsequent airings makes the sequence of events at best odd, at worst inconsistent.

I also think TM's reaction in the final scene of the episode suggests that what happened was more than Lena just being apprehended and taken away by the police.

An excellent episode with a ending slightly confused by what I suspect is syndication censoring/editing.

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Re: Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

#93 Post by magnumette »

Hi All:
I am trying to watch all Magnum's in sequence- I have the entire set and have yet to do this- and Cozi's episodes on Thursday night when I can.

I am so glad Magnum is on air with a channel I have again :). I saw the original =itwhenit aired but of course that was a long time ago. l was young. But like Rombo, I swore that she lunged for Thomas and then a view of the boat with a gunshot was next frame. As far as disarming a senior might have proven hard for TM for she had proven herself to be deft with a scalpel killing Dr Kessler earlier... She was far from a meek little thing. She was an unrepentant , angry Nazi!

I wish someone out there had tapes of the original aired episodes ( gulp I admit VCR tapes are still in my vocabulary haha) B/c it does drive me a bit crazy ... My memory might be playing tricks on me ..

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Re: Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

#94 Post by Little Garwood »

J.J. Walters wrote:Interesting Ronbo, very interesting! The way the scene was filmed (with the cutaway to the boat) certainly lends itself to a gunshot. Still though, Magnum could easily have subdued Elena and disarmed her. Perhaps that is why they removed the sound of the shot? ;)
As I interpret this, Magnum's sad, reflective behavior at episode's end would coincide with him having to shoot Lena and the lingering shot of the boat before that seemed set up for a gunshot to be heard, dramatically speaking. Just before the scene cuts away, Lena says something like "Yes, it is over", which could mean she's surrendering or that she would lunge at TM with the scalpel, though I thought it appeared she had loosened her grip in the insert shot? I don't know, but whatever the case, not knowing definitively hurts the dramatic impact for me. Still, an excellent episode.
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#95 Post by Milton Collins »

J.J. Walters wrote: In any event, I think you are right about the Magnum/Lena scene IH. The denouement also seems to support the idea that Magnum had to have killed her - He's clearly upset and Higgins' Nuremburg Trials speech.
I did not hear a gunshot but I agree and this is the way I took this ending too. At first it makes you think she backed down as he had a gun but it's pretty clear she was crazy by how she was screaming and shouting and looking at him all crazy like that that she went after him. I also agree that it was clear TM blasted her because of how upset he was on the beach prompting Higgins little pep talk. I love how he almost instantly goes from caring and trying to help Magnum to "this changes nothing between us, no wild parties, no unauthorized overnights guests" and on and on into the ending. Absolutely vintage Higgins being the controlling little major domo that he is! A few other highlights:

- One of the best plot twists of the series! I was totally fooled about Saul and Lena and even found myself feeling bad for them in this one. That is utill you find out they were evil, torturing, Nazis. And as Higgins said, there were no "little fish"! Regardless, a total 360 that is really well done!

- These early ones seemed to be much more liberal and generous with scenes from the estate, the club, and other locations. For instance, we see much more of the bar inside the club which I love! What location was used for this? I'm betting Rubber Chicken has it documented!!

- I love seeing Glen Cannon/ Doc Ibold show up in the early episode as a random doctor who gets wiped out, his throat cut nonetheless (yuk!) that Lena was one sick broad! And his mansion/estate was quite awesome from what it showed, was this ever used in any other episodes? Kindve reminded me of the one used in season 3 "Of Sound Mind" which also featured a large expansive mansion.

- Rick as a sushi delivery man? What's not to love there lol. And we get to see a quick shot of it on the beginning introduction of each episode!!

- Ok gotta call bullsh#%*$ on something here. Would Magnum (or anyone in their sound mind) jump directly at the back of a huge boat like that right where the motor props are? I get that he's a tough, athletic, and sometimes a little bit crazy (meant in a good way, will do anything to help his clients :)) private investigator but seriously, if he doesn't make that jump he's chopped to bits much like Ted Danson in season 2 "Don't Say Goodbye". Not a big deal but I just think they could have had him jump from a different angle to make it more realistic.

Overall this is a really good episode that I hadn't seen in a number of years, glad I watched it again.

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Re:

#96 Post by Sir Fearing »

First I thought it was a flub, but now it seems to get much more interesting. I was intrigued learning more about the tattoo Lena has on her right wrist. So I did some research.

Every camp inmate became a number which was further used instead of his name. In most camps they were pinned on the prisoner’s clothes together with cloth triangles in different colors which named the “cause” of their imprisonment (like being Jewish or homosexual,). As far as I read they only used tattoos in one concentration camp: in Auschwitz. (Reportedly, they did it to exclude the confusion of stripped corpses.) And they used the left forearm. Lena says that she was in Jadwiga in Poland, not Auschwitz and she has the tattoo on her right arm. I thought that to be a flub.

Then I thought it could have been made on purpose. Lena faking the tattoo could have missed that detail and put it on the wrong arm. Like to give a clue that she or her tattoo weren’t authentic. But: Higgins taking part in the Nuremberg trials would have known that? I mean he seems to know EVERYTHING, didn’t he?

Well, but then I wanted to know more about Jadwiga as I’ve never ever heard of it. It turned out to be a fictional place and not a real one! Author Leon Uris wrote the novel “QB VII” about a Polish doctor and introduced his fictitious death camp “Jadwiga”. In 1974 it was made into a mini series featuring Anthony Hopkins. In “The Chosen Image: Television's Portrayal of Jewish Themes and Characters” by Jonathan and Judith Pearl it says:
“The hunt for Nazis is complicated when they take on other identities to elude detection and evade capture. Often, this goes beyond merely taking on a façade of humanitarianism to mask past crimes, as did Adam Kelno in QB VII, and entails a more bizarre disguise. In TV’s most common twist of identities, Nazis pose as Jews or even as Holocaust survivors, in a final affront to their victims. This theme of enemies of the Jews’ taking on their cloak and character reappeared in several shows. In each case, the Nazi, staunchly unrepentant, is discovered and captures.”
(Page 154) The next paragraph names Magnum P.I. as an example. So they took the idea of the plot and made a reference to its origins!

Sorry, that was much longer than intended.

PS: No gunshot in the German language version.

PPS:
Croix de Lorraine wrote: 2) Have you ever heard of a Nazi called Saul Greenberg? Sure, he could be using a false name, but his wife calls him Saul in private. And he couldn't look more Jewish if he was wearing a skull cap. The actor seems to be actually Jewish. In any case he's the least Nazi-looking person I've seen in my life.
I am sure Saul and Lena changed their names. They had to choose a Jewish name and disguise themself to make their hiding place perfect.
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Re: Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

#97 Post by Tesza »

This is an episode that can be re-watched many times, with the surprising plot twist "flashing" every time again. A Jewish couple, of course, would be the last one to suspect of having engaged in cruel actions in a concentration camp. As a viewer you won't get suspicious before seeing the early 1950's photo with the tattoo missing. Dr. Kessler suspected of Nazi activities in the beginning seems less surprising considering you already hear his origin (Kessler is a relatively frequent last name in the German-speaking area). But even after knowing what's going on with the 'Greenbergs', you are surprised that Dr. Kessler turns out to be a Jew run after by the Nazis. As pointed out by Croix de Lorraine, the Greenbergs' rather "too Jewish" outward appearance confuses, but if you really want to look completely different, you always have the chance to - at least if plastic surgery was already that highly developed around 1950, I'm not sure about this. If not, we have to state this as a flub.

Like Sir Fearing, I was confused about the CC Jadwiga, I also had to research until finding out it's fictitious. By the way, "Jadwiga" is a female name, it's the Polish form of the German "Hedwig". This name, in numerous variants, exists in all Slavic languages.

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Re:

#98 Post by Luther's nephew Dobie »

J.J. Walters wrote:Does anyone happen to recall whether or not there was a gunshot at the end of this episode (immediately after the climactic confrontation b/t Magnum and Lena, during the last shot of the boat on the water) in the original broadcast? If not, what a strange way to end the scene! The scene builds up all this tension, Lena still hasn't dropped the scalpel, and you just cut to the boat ... then nothing?! :?
Hi JJ,
Perhaps someone on these boards has a VCR tape of Never Again from the CBS run. That may sound unlikely but I still have a VCR tape somewhere from the 1980's with a Mike Hammer on it and a Due South.
For what its worth, every time I have seen this episode in reruns, I wonder "didn't Magnum shoot her" back when I first viewed it on CBS.

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#99 Post by Mark R.Y. »

Mark R.Y. wrote:I'm confused about one thing. Maybe someone could clear it up for me. When Magnum and Rick find the body of Dr. Kessler with his throat slashed, Rick suggests that the Mossad agents did it. But it's not until a minute or so later that Magnum realizes that Lena and Saul are the real Nazis and that until this insight the two guys who had whisked Saul away in the ambulance and later penetrated the grounds of Robin's Nest were assumed to be Nazis themselves. So why did Rick call them Mossad?
Correcting myself four years later, thanks to both Croix de Lorraine's post and me watching this episode tonight with subtitles on. Rick indeed says "Masada team, " (earlier Lena had claimed Saul to be a member of them) and not "Mossad."

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Re: Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

#100 Post by KingKC »

Anything with the Holocaust gets and keeps my attention and what a twist for the ending!! This was another recognition of WWII and how it seriously affected our world. I always enjoyed the way MPI depicted and respected everything about the military, including Higgins' ventures, Vietnam, WWII, buddies that were vets and the social issues that resulted.

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Re: Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

#101 Post by Turkey »

Huge episode - one of the best. I probably should place it somewhere in my top ten, now that I've seen it again.


For me, the long shot cut away suggests a gunshot 'ringing across the water' kinda thing, but I could definitely by Lena's suicide too.

Loved the 'day for night' shooting - old school! :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_for_night
Make it two weeks.

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Re: Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

#102 Post by thechickinthemiddle »

The plot twist was pretty huge to throw at the viewer this early in the series. I personally thought Lena was going to try and kill Magnum (two of the men she killed were about his size anyway), so the gunshot to me makes far more sense than a suicide (at this point, she'd have nothing to lose). I also found it funny that the hospital P.A. called for a Doug Ibold in the same hospital this Dr. Kessler was working in :P And for me, the day-for-night was distracting (later eps like "Tropical Madness" seemed fine with actual night filming (or perhaps dusk), so it's a little odd to me why DFN (the way it was done in the 60s) would still be done by the 1980s. Perhaps there's something I'm missing).

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Re: Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

#103 Post by Danny Lin »

On the plot twist and Lena´s hairstyle:
J.J. Walters wrote:Best plot twist of the entire series!
Tesza wrote:This is an episode that can be re-watched many times, with the surprising plot twist "flashing" every time again. A Jewish couple, of course, would be the last one to suspect of having engaged in cruel actions in a concentration camp. As a viewer you won't get suspicious before seeing the early 1950's photo with the tattoo missing.

...
In fact, when I watched the episode for the second or third time, it suddenly struck me that Lena´s hairstyle perhaps was meant as a hint for attentive viewers at her being a Nazi herself, since braided hairstyle was a typical part of the Nazi aesthetics?
... Then I'm history... Walking history... I'll be just another chapter in one of those dumb books Louise Peardon makes me read: "Prince Danny Lin, assassinated July." ...

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Re:

#104 Post by Danny Lin »

On who is steering the boat when Lena takes care of Saul:
Visiting Stewardess wrote:
...

But at the same time this scene made me wonder: who is steering the boat in the marina when Saul has just had a heart attack and Lena is leaning over him????
That´s what I was asking myself too. But if one takes a closer look one can see that the sequence involving the dead Saul, Lena and Magnum is shot right in front of the steering wheel. Before that sequence there is a shot of the boat in open waters shown, so the suggestion seems to be that Lena herself manoeuvred the boat out of the marina and in open waters could leave the steering wheel and take care of Saul.
Last edited by Danny Lin on Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
... Then I'm history... Walking history... I'll be just another chapter in one of those dumb books Louise Peardon makes me read: "Prince Danny Lin, assassinated July." ...

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#105 Post by Danny Lin »

On Magnum nearly jumping into a screw:
Milton Collins wrote:
...

- Ok gotta call bullsh#%*$ on something here. Would Magnum (or anyone in their sound mind) jump directly at the back of a huge boat like that right where the motor props are? I get that he's a tough, athletic, and sometimes a little bit crazy (meant in a good way, will do anything to help his clients :)) private investigator but seriously, if he doesn't make that jump he's chopped to bits much like Ted Danson in season 2 "Don't Say Goodbye". Not a big deal but I just think they could have had him jump from a different angle to make it more realistic.

...
I totally agree!!! I hate when the audience is demanded to buy totally unrealistic crap. Fortunately "Magnum P.I." doesn´t contain too much of such stuff (unlike a Steven Seagal movie :? :? :evil: )
... Then I'm history... Walking history... I'll be just another chapter in one of those dumb books Louise Peardon makes me read: "Prince Danny Lin, assassinated July." ...

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