Alice

[Dave Anderson]

I have been watching Alice episodes lately (the 70s-80s sitcom).

I hadn't seen the show since its original run, when I was a little kid. It would be hard to explain to anyone under 35, but there really were lots and lots of these kinds of places in America in the 70s. They only "diners" now are high priced deliberate "nostalgia" places, usually with a 50s theme, or corporate chains like Dennys (also overpriced). Now when you go to a restaurant alone you have to sit at a table and feel self-conscious everyone is looking at you and wondering why you're by yourself. Where are the counters for single patrons and the friendly, or even surly, employees to chat with?

The diner in Mel's is so authentic, down to the gumball machine and the pay phone. Vic Tayback made that show. The show should have been called Mel's or Mel's Diner, not Alice. The Alice character was the least interesting character, but by no means a bad one.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

I have been watching Alice episodes lately (the 70s-80s sitcom).
I hadn't seen the show since its original run, when I was a little kid. It would be hard to explain to anyone under 35, but there really were lots and lots of these kinds of places in America in the 70s. They only "diners" now are high priced deliberate "nostalgia" places, usually with a 50s theme, or corporate chains like Dennys (also overpriced). Now when you go to a restaurant alone you have to sit at a table and feel self-conscious everyone is looking at you and wondering why you're by yourself. Where are the counters for single patrons and the friendly, or even surly, employees to chat with?
The diner in Mel's is so authentic, down to the gumball machine and the pay phone. Vic Tayback made that show. The show should have been called Mel's or Mel's Diner, not Alice. The Alice character was the least interesting character, but by no means a bad one.

Dave,
I understand you are generally correct about diners declining in most of America, but have you been to Jersey? Most every town has a diner. NJ is the diner capitol of the world, and it is where most of them are/were built, almost all being prefabricated. It's still part of the culture of the Northeast, from roughly Maryland up to Boston. Check out the classic 1982 movie 'Diner' directed by Barry Levinson, its brilliant, its Americana and it perfectly evokes the whole diner experience.
THE staple of the Jersey diner is Taylor Ham, egg and cheese on a bun, with ketchup. Perfection. Taylor Ham is available only in NJ, its secet recipe rumored to have been stolen from the Gods along with the secret of fire way back at the dawn of time.
Many Jersey expatriates doomed to live in lesser lands regularly have friends ship them Taylor Ham, though they invariably hoarde it rather than share with their new neighbors, which may explain why it isnt better known in other regions.
The Summit Diner in Summit, NJ is one of the oldest and perhaps best of the breed, local lore claiming it inspired Hemingway to write his short story The Killers, later a great film noir starring Burt Lancaster. European tourists have been known to go there for the diner experience.
As for the tv show Alice, I watched it too, it was pretty good the 1st four years and star Linda Lavin was very sexy in a way only an older woman can be, as opposed to the girlish gym rat airheads that are everywhere on todays television.

[Little Garwood]

Alice was on seemingly forever, and should have ended after about four seasons, though in my view it ceases to exist after Flo (Polly Holiday) left. I've seen episode of the post-Flo years and they just don't compare to when she was on the series. Heck, such was my love for the Flo character, I even watched her short-lived spin off series. My lord, what doldrums TV was circa 1978-1981 (before Magnum arrived and saved my childhood)

Mel was great, as was the guy Ralph(?), a regular customer there. However, I could not stand Vera, though. Linda Lavin had absolutely no flair for comedy, though I suppose her role was to be the dramatic weight and react to the madcap antic of the others. I remember her excellent line reading where their car broke down on the way to the airport or something along those lines and Alice lamented "Well, there goes Tommy's White Christmas." For some reason I've never forgotten the way she delivered the line.

Here's a great diner for you, courtesy of Edward Hopper.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

Alice was on seemingly forever, and should have ended after about four seasons, though in my view it ceases to exist after Flo (Polly Holiday) left. I've seen episode of the post-Flo years and they just don't compare to when she was on the series. Heck, such was my love for the Flo character, I even watched her short-lived spin off series. My lord, what doldrums TV was circa 1978-1981 (before Magnum arrived and saved my childhood)

Mel was great, as was the guy Ralph(?), a regular customer there. However, I could not stand Vera, though. Linda Lavin had absolutely no flair for comedy, though I suppose her role was to be the dramatic weight and react to the madcap antic of the others. I remember her excellent line reading where their car broke down on the way to the airport or something along those lines and Alice lamented "Well, there goes Tommy's White Christmas." For some reason I've never forgotten the way she delivered the line.

Here's a great diner for you, courtesy of Edward Hopper.

Garwood,
The Nighthawks painting is perfect for this thread. Too bad Mad Buck Gibson didnt drop Vera into the ocean on his last flight, she was just terrible.

[MHTR]

Dave Anderson wrote:
It would be hard to explain to anyone under 35, but there really were lots and lots of these kinds of places in America in the 70s.

Ah, the good old "greasy spoon!" There were two in my hometown when I was growing up in the 80s. One, or both, of them was still around in the 90s. I don't know if they are still there as I moved away in 96. I'll have to ask someone. There was one in the general location I'm currently living in, but it went away probably about 10 years ago.

Little Garwood wrote:
Alice was on seemingly forever, and should have ended after about four seasons, though in my view it ceases to exist after Flo (Polly Holiday) left.

I agree. The post-Flo episodes mostly stank. By the way, thanks for the cool image. It'll make a great wallpaper.

One thing I didn't know until about a month ago, Linda Lavin starred as a recurring character on Barney Miller (I never was a regular watcher of that show).

[Steve]

Wow, two of my favorites in one thread; Hoppers Nighthawks painting (which is on display at our Chicago Art Institute) and Barry Levinson movies! By the way, in Levinson's movie Avalon you can see the diner from the movie Diner being lowered in to place............

[J.J. Walters]

Kiss my grits!

Yeah, I watched some Alice back in the day. Some. Vic Tayback was my favorite. The gangster boss from that original Star Trek episode.

[Styles Bitchley]

We got a basset hound in the early eighties and I was given the opportunity to name her. I came up with Flo...this show was running all the time back then!

[Pahonu]

I have been watching Alice episodes lately (the 70s-80s sitcom).
I hadn't seen the show since its original run, when I was a little kid. It would be hard to explain to anyone under 35, but there really were lots and lots of these kinds of places in America in the 70s. They only "diners" now are high priced deliberate "nostalgia" places, usually with a 50s theme, or corporate chains like Dennys (also overpriced). Now when you go to a restaurant alone you have to sit at a table and feel self-conscious everyone is looking at you and wondering why you're by yourself. Where are the counters for single patrons and the friendly, or even surly, employees to chat with?
The diner in Mel's is so authentic, down to the gumball machine and the pay phone. Vic Tayback made that show. The show should have been called Mel's or Mel's Diner, not Alice. The Alice character was the least interesting character, but by no means a bad one.

Dave,
I understand you are generally correct about diners declining in most of America, but have you been to Jersey? Most every town has a diner. NJ is the diner capitol of the world, and it is where most of them are/were built, almost all being prefabricated. It's still part of the culture of the Northeast, from roughly Maryland up to Boston. Check out the classic 1982 movie 'Diner' directed by Barry Levinson, its brilliant, its Americana and it perfectly evokes the whole diner experience.
THE staple of the Jersey diner is Taylor Ham, egg and cheese on a bun, with ketchup. Perfection. Taylor Ham is available only in NJ, its secet recipe rumored to have been stolen from the Gods along with the secret of fire way back at the dawn of time.
Many Jersey expatriates doomed to live in lesser lands regularly have friends ship them Taylor Ham, though they invariably hoarde it rather than share with their new neighbors, which may explain why it isnt better known in other regions.
The Summit Diner in Summit, NJ is one of the oldest and perhaps best of the breed, local lore claiming it inspired Hemingway to write his short story The Killers, later a great film noir starring Burt Lancaster. European tourists have been known to go there for the diner experience.
As for the tv show Alice, I watched it too, it was pretty good the 1st four years and star Linda Lavin was very sexy in a way only an older woman can be, as opposed to the girlish gym rat airheads that are everywhere on todays television.

Maybe we're just lucky, but here in Long Beach we have lot's of these kinds of diners, places with names like Chuck's, Hof's, The Crooked Duck, Schooner or Later. They all have a bar to eat at, and the last one was featured on Diner's , Drive-ins, and Dives. Now it's crowded too often for locals. My wife and I agree, breakfast out is our favorite meal.