Death of the Flowers (7.12)

Rate, review & discuss the episodes from the seventh season

Moderator: Styles Bitchley

How Would You Rate This Episode?

10 (Perfect!)
1
2%
9.5 (One of the Best)
2
3%
9.0 (Excellent)
9
14%
8.5 (Very Good)
18
27%
8.0 (Pretty Good)
16
24%
7.5 (Decent)
9
14%
7.0 (Average at Best)
5
8%
6.5 (Not So Good)
3
5%
6.0 (Pretty Bad)
2
3%
5.0 (Just Awful)
1
2%
 
Total votes: 66

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Mark R.Y.
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#11 Post by Mark R.Y. »

If Wendy was 5 in 1958, that would make her 30 in "Distant Relative" (1983). But wasn't she closer to 20 in that?

Otherwise, very fine episode. Interesting how there's barely any dialogue or narration at all in the final few minutes.

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Jay-Firestorm
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#12 Post by Jay-Firestorm »

Another one that lots of people to like, but I wasn’t too keen on, I’m afraid. :(

[rating=6.5]

Carol asks Thomas to investigate her mentor, a judge, after he has began acting very strangely and secretive. But the case implicates Rick’s friend Ice Pick, and both Carol and Rick begin to question the integrity of their respective mentors. An awkward ep…

-----

This review contains spoilers.

This episode is yet another one that some love, whereas others rank pretty lowly. I’m afraid to say, I fall into the latter camp – I’m not very keen on this one.
The opening trailer for the episode isn’t very inspiring, and sadly it is true of the episode, which is nothing to write home about.

The story is penned by jobbing writers Maryanne Kasica and Michael Scheff. They had written the odd episode of the likes of ‘Hart to Hart’ and ‘Murder, She Wrote’, but this is their only ‘Magnum, p.i.’ contribution. Maybe this is one of the reasons that the episode does not work in my eyes – they just don’t seem to have the ‘feel’ for the series.

But I can’t be completely down on this episode – it does have some good moments. As always, the rapport between Tom Selleck and Kathleen Lloyd is very good (I particularly like the scene(s) when they are following the judge, complete with game of twenty questions!). And for some reason, I also like the scene of Higgins at the garden centre, picking out flowers (which are a motif of this story).

I do like what they were going for here; I think it is good that the series tried something different occasionally. It is just unfortunately that the final result feels rather awkward.

The story starts off with a little potential (emphasis on the little), but sadly by the second half it has become pretty boring for the most part.
Saying that, the episode is notable for the last few minutes having barely any dialogue at all – again, fair play to them for trying something a little different.

So all-in-all, I’m not over enamoured with this one. As I say, I like that they were trying something different, and it is not my least favourite of the season thus far (that goes to the terrible ‘Murder, She Wrote’ crossover ‘Novel Connection’), but this one definitely comes off as one of my lesser favourites of the season.

-----

Other notes, bloopers and misc.

* Other than my old bugbear of the DVD version having the act breaks abridged, I didn’t pick up on anything else with this episode.
JAY FIRESTORM

Facebook: Jay Gathergood / Twitter: Jay_Firestorm NEW BLOG: http://thea-teamcaptured.blogspot.com/

My A-Team site - http://thea-team.org aiming to be the most detailed A-Team site on the Net - if I ever get around to updating it!!

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Little Garwood
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#13 Post by Little Garwood »

James J. Walters wrote: How many TV shows would even come close to mentioning/quoting/referencing people like William Cullen Bryant, Thomas Gray, or Raymond Chandler ever, let alone in the same episode? None! The answer is none! ;)

The story has a good flow to it and never has a misstep. And I love the moving, uncharacteristic ending. Very well done.

Great episode!
I work at a college and those names aren't ever mentioned. Of course, it's a junior college aka "The 13th Grade."

I voted "Excellent."

I'd never seen this episode--as I've said before, back in 1986, I stopped watching MPI after "Death and Taxes"--but this is one of the most moving episodes of the series. There aren't any fast, easy resolutions, but we are given a poignant story about how some things in life just hurt, and that those we look up to also have failings and foibles. I think TV gives us too many neat and tidy wrap ups, but "Death of Flowers" doesn't. It's all the more effective for having us care about supporting characters' and not just Thomas. No gunfights or real fisticuffs, either. Beautifully done.

Ugh. I'm still verklempt after having just watched this. :(
"Popularity is the pocket change of history."

~Tom Selleck

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Carol the Dabbler
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#14 Post by Carol the Dabbler »

golfmobile wrote:When Magnum and Carol are tailing the judge and Carol goes to get burgers, TM puts on his reading glasses and starts reading the Raymond Chandler book. But when he looks up and sees Carol bump into the judge and watches them, he doesn't REMOVE the READING glasses! He wouldn't be able to see squat with his "reading" glasses at a distance or he wouldn't need them only for reading.
Good point, golf. Hey, James, doesn't that belong in the Episode Guide's Flubs list? (Maybe while you're there, you can correct a typo -- "brake" should be "break.")

I could make something of a case for the glasses bit NOT being a flub, though. I'm (very) nearsighted, not farsighted like TM appears to be, but I do have special glasses for various situations. Nevertheless, I can recognize some things with the "wrong" glasses on, or even without glasses. My recollection is that Carol was wearing a distinctively-colored outfit in that scene. So TM would have seen someone he thought was probably Carol bump into someone in full-length dark clothing (presumably a man in a suit), and could have guessed from her body language that it was the judge.

But, yeah, you woulda thought he'd take off his reading glasses for a confirming look.
Carol

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Styles Bitchley
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#15 Post by Styles Bitchley »

This is one of my least favourite episodes. I'm not a big fan of Carol, but that's not all. There are just some things I don't like and some things that don't make sense.

First, I don't feel like I need to know that much about Icepick. I like the character as a shady character. He's a bit of a scoundrel that probably has a good heart, but he's still up to some questionable activities. This episode sort of changes him into a 'nice guy'.

There are a few things that are confusing and don't make sense, but top of the list is how Carol seems to become the most important person in the judge's life after he dies. Sorting through his personal belongings? The last person at the funeral? Somehow, I think his family would be a little perturbed by such an intimate presence of a former student at such a personal time!

Also, even if Higgins relented and actually allowed the KKC to host a party for a known organized crime boss (he never would), would he go as far as to help Magnum break into the flower warehouse and put the flowers for Icepick's fete on the KKC account?

BTW, what's up with the outrageous leaf "lei" at the funeral? Is that a traditional Hawaiian accoutrement worn at funerals?
"How fiendishly deceptive of you Magnum. I could have sworn I was hearing the emasculation of a large rodent."

- J.Q.H.

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mandolabar
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#16 Post by mandolabar »

When watching this episode, I was reminded of "Home From the Sea," in the fourth season--the same artful editing. Or at least similarly artful--Home From the Sea had the best visual pacing I've ever seen, but this one did a very good job of folding the different stories in with each other. It was beautifully done.
"What I would have done, Magnum, is what I did." (Mad Dogs & Englishmen)

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#17 Post by Waterbug Blue »

A great episode that's got a lot to do with growing up... the episode itself is quite grown up, and yet we realize that growing up is a process that never ends, not even at Icepick's age - his relation towards his mentor has not really been mentioned yet...
As far as leis are concerned - is it just me, or is Carol actually donning the (a??) precious 'Kapu'-shell lei??? And does hat really go unnoticed so shortly after it having been an important part (in many ways) in a previous episode?

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#18 Post by Croix de Lorraine »

"CHICAGO 1958......................................Just...with modern cars..................................Ach never mind! Look, there's a coffin!"

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#19 Post by Croix de Lorraine »

Styles Bitchley wrote:This is one of my least favourite episodes. I'm not a big fan of Carol, but that's not all. There are just some things I don't like and some things that don't make sense.

First, I don't feel like I need to know that much about Icepick. I like the character as a shady character. He's a bit of a scoundrel that probably has a good heart, but he's still up to some questionable activities. This episode sort of changes him into a 'nice guy'.

There are a few things that are confusing and don't make sense, but top of the list is how Carol seems to become the most important person in the judge's life after he dies. Sorting through his personal belongings? The last person at the funeral? Somehow, I think his family would be a little perturbed by such an intimate presence of a former student at such a personal time!

Also, even if Higgins relented and actually allowed the KKC to host a party for a known organized crime boss (he never would), would he go as far as to help Magnum break into the flower warehouse and put the flowers for Icepick's fete on the KKC account?

BTW, what's up with the outrageous leaf "lei" at the funeral? Is that a traditional Hawaiian accoutrement worn at funerals?
All your observations are very pertinent. I found myself thinking the same things as I watched the episode.

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Re: Death of the Flowers (7.12)

#20 Post by SignGuyHPW »

This was an odd one for me. I both did and did not like it at the same time for various reasons. It seemed to have a great theme going, but didn't get fleshed out all of the way I think.

The main thing that bothered me was that they wreck the established age that Wendy supposedly was in the episode where she was killed. Doing the math they give in this episode wrecks it. It also kind of makes Rick's age closer to Magnum's when it always appeared that way despite it varying over the series. They also left a few things open. What did Icepick end up doing since he went with the police and Grace? How did Magnum get out of that office and drive past the store so quickly? If Rick was the one reserving the party room then why would the KKC board even have to know whom he was honoring at the party? Did they intend to imply that the guy they arrested at the end was the guy that killed the judge? I also didn't like how Magnum was treating things like a big game where they played 20 questions and ate burgers and using a game to get Higgins to help instead of a serious case. With what Carol told him he should've known it wasn't some big joke.

I did like how they had the mentor theme going through the whole episode with the various characters. I think it was also the best use of Icepick in the series as you really got to see a different side to him. Higgins trying to improvise ways to keep Grace from getting to the office to buy Magnum more time was really great too. It was interesting to see them wrap up the show with a musical montage and no real dialouge.

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Luther's nephew Dobie
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#21 Post by Luther's nephew Dobie »

"How many TV shows would even come close to mentioning/quoting/referencing people like William Cullen Bryant, Thomas Gray, or Raymond Chandler ever, let alone in the same episode? None! The answer is none!" ;)

JJ,
I will see your Bryant, Gray, Chandler and raise you Carl Sandburg, John Donne, Makepeace Thackeray, Voltaire, Faulkner, Tennessee Williams and Billy Shakespeare, from the CBS show Route 66.
Route 66 is without doubt the most literary series ever made, along with its companion series Naked City. In Route 66, a pair of 20 somethings, one a Yale grad and the other a Hells Kitchen cool Jazz type, travel America in their Corvette, every episode filmed on location, capturing a vanished America from the early 1960's with a guest cast of future stars that rivals Twilight Zones'.
Tod the Yale guy to his pal Buz, on how to bag a college girl English major he's panting for:
"Tell her your a Existentialist"
"What if she asks me what it is?"
"Tell her you don't talk about it, you live it"
Not a belly laugh but the above will get a knowing smile, as head writer Stirling Silliphant assumed the audience had a nodding acquaintance with at least some book learning.
But the show wasnt aimed at effete geeks either, there was plenty of uber-babes, bars and fights along with some of the most layered, sophisticated scripts you will ever come across, they are used even today in writing classes.
But I digress.
I agree with you, JJ, that Magnum PI mentioning Chandler etc is very much to its credit and underlines how Magnum is so much better than the Babes and Cars and sexy lead character that so many people assume it is.
On the contrary, I think Thomas Magnum is just about the most deeply developed character ever, given all the things we learn about him by series end. We not only have Thomas the patriotic warrior, loyal friend and all those other good things but also a man with many demons who could have just as well embraced "the dark side of the force".
I have said it before, but being a stone killer is a part of his nature that he has never fully vanquished, TC especially being aware of that, that knowledge deepening their friendship in a intimate way that leaves Rick and Higgins on the outside.
Of course maybe I'm wrong.
Dobie Gillis
"Thats Dobie with a 'B' not 'P'...Dwayne Hickman

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Steve
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Re: Re:

#22 Post by Steve »

Luther's nephew Dobie wrote:"How many TV shows would even come close to mentioning/quoting/referencing people like William Cullen Bryant, Thomas Gray, or Raymond Chandler ever, let alone in the same episode? None! The answer is none!" ;)

JJ,
I will see your Bryant, Gray, Chandler and raise you Carl Sandburg, John Donne, Makepeace Thackeray, Voltaire, Faulkner, Tennessee Williams and Billy Shakespeare, from the CBS show Route 66.
Route 66 is without doubt the most literary series ever made, along with its companion series Naked City. In Route 66, a pair of 20 somethings, one a Yale grad and the other a Hells Kitchen cool Jazz type, travel America in their Corvette, every episode filmed on location, capturing a vanished America from the early 1960's with a guest cast of future stars that rivals Twilight Zones'.
Tod the Yale guy to his pal Buz, on how to bag a college girl English major he's panting for:
"Tell her your a Existentialist"
"What if she asks me what it is?"
"Tell her you don't talk about it, you live it"
Not a belly laugh but the above will get a knowing smile, as head writer Stirling Silliphant assumed the audience had a nodding acquaintance with at least some book learning.
But the show wasnt aimed at effete geeks either, there was plenty of uber-babes, bars and fights along with some of the most layered, sophisticated scripts you will ever come across, they are used even today in writing classes.
Great post Dobie and you are not alone as I am a huge Route 66 fan as well......

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Re: Re:

#23 Post by ConchRepublican »

Steve wrote:
Luther's nephew Dobie wrote:"How many TV shows would even come close to mentioning/quoting/referencing people like William Cullen Bryant, Thomas Gray, or Raymond Chandler ever, let alone in the same episode? None! The answer is none!" ;)

JJ,
I will see your Bryant, Gray, Chandler and raise you Carl Sandburg, John Donne, Makepeace Thackeray, Voltaire, Faulkner, Tennessee Williams and Billy Shakespeare, from the CBS show Route 66.
Route 66 is without doubt the most literary series ever made, along with its companion series Naked City. In Route 66, a pair of 20 somethings, one a Yale grad and the other a Hells Kitchen cool Jazz type, travel America in their Corvette, every episode filmed on location, capturing a vanished America from the early 1960's with a guest cast of future stars that rivals Twilight Zones'.
Tod the Yale guy to his pal Buz, on how to bag a college girl English major he's panting for:
"Tell her your a Existentialist"
"What if she asks me what it is?"
"Tell her you don't talk about it, you live it"
Not a belly laugh but the above will get a knowing smile, as head writer Stirling Silliphant assumed the audience had a nodding acquaintance with at least some book learning.
But the show wasnt aimed at effete geeks either, there was plenty of uber-babes, bars and fights along with some of the most layered, sophisticated scripts you will ever come across, they are used even today in writing classes.
Great post Dobie and you are not alone as I am a huge Route 66 fan as well......
I have never seen an episode. In the famous words of Capt. Tony Taracino (via Jimmy Buffett) "There's still so much to be done".
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPTmsykLQ04

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Re: Death of the Flowers (7.12)

#24 Post by BWheelz54 »

Hey Dobie!

Ah, thanks a ton for mentioning Route 66. My father used to tell me all the time when I was studying English at college (my first life) that I would LOVE that show. I had forgotten about it, and your post brought it back to mind. I have to get hold of that ASAP.

You know, I often think I like MPI so much because the series is full of nods to nerdy lit folks, like me. I'm always catching some wink and nod to the writing world, a reason why the episode "Kiss of the Sabre" is one of my favorites. Though that episode might not be a favorite of a lot of folks, that episode is full of little laughs English majors can get a kick out off.

But thanks for mentioning Route 66 again. I am going to run to that show!

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Luther's nephew Dobie
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Re: Death of the Flowers (7.12)

#25 Post by Luther's nephew Dobie »

BWheelz54 wrote:Hey Dobie!
Ah, thanks a ton for mentioning Route 66. My father used to tell me all the time when I was studying English at college (my first life) that I would LOVE that show. I had forgotten about it, and your post brought it back to mind. I have to get hold of that ASAP.
You know, I often think I like MPI so much because the series is full of nods to nerdy lit folks, like me. I'm always catching some wink and nod to the writing world, a reason why the episode "Kiss of the Sabre" is one of my favorites. Though that episode might not be a favorite of a lot of folks, that episode is full of little laughs English majors can get a kick out off.
But thanks for mentioning Route 66 again. I am going to run to that show!
Hi BWheel,
You are welcome, I am just spreading the word, like I do with people who have somehow never seen Magnum PI.
Anyway, Route 66 must have something going for it if orange, 3 feet tall aliens from the planet Melmac like it too:

Willie Tanner - "Say, uh, where'd you ever learn about fixing cars anyway?"
Alf - "I used to watch Route 66. You pick things up."
Willie - "That's amazing."
Alf - "I'll tell you whats more amazing. That George Maharis never got another series."

Okay, I admit it, I am a low brow who also enjoys ALF on occasion.
I would like to share the below passage from Route 66, the last line of which I have used a few times as when my buddy Bob dwelled far too long(6 years) on the passing of a loved one to the point of turning her into a morbid dream instead of a loving memory:

Tod to Linc(the 4th season replacement for Buz/George Maharis, who like Magnum was a Special Forces vet in Vietnam and now just wants to grab up all those years of fun he missed):
"The Greeks lied about Narcissus. He didn't fall in love with himself.
He'd never known what love was. So he couldn't accept it or reject it.
He could just look for it.
When he saw his own image reflected in that pool of water, he didn't fall in love with
himself, he fell in hate with himself."
Linc to Janie: "Stop looking in mirrors, Janie. There are windows all around."

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