Was Higgins a US Citizen?

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perfectlykevin
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#16 Post by perfectlykevin »

Sparkle & Fizz wrote:Non-citizens who hold US work visas or whose permission to work is inherent in their immigration status can have Social Security Numbers. Remember, Uncle Sam has to collect his due! Even in the 80's, there was a pretty simple process for an alien with a valid work visa to present his or her documents at the SSA to obtain an SSN.

I hope this is helpful!
Absolutely! I guess then that he had a SS# and was not a "bloody American" after all. :) It does help to know that the parts do fit together.

Also he was pretty clear on his view of the Rev. war in "Home From The Sea" too now that I think of it... :)

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#17 Post by IslandHopper »

perfectlykevin wrote:I doubt he was a US citizen. I rememebr in the pilot ep. he said to Magnum not to put ice in his whiskey..."I'm not a bloody American!" I may have it slightly off but that what I'm remembering.
Higgins may not have been a U.S. citizen when he made the "I'm not a bloody American" comment, but that doesn't mean he didn't become a U.S. citizen sometime after. The "legal" immigration process takes many years. According to Higgins' History, he wasn't hired by Robin Masters until 1972, and there is nothing in Higgins' history that would indicate that he was in Hawaii before 1972. Just because he came to Hawaii in 1972 doesn't mean he immediately applied for U.S. citizenship. I know people from England who have been trying to become U.S. citizens for more than a decade and they are business owners here in the states, pay taxes and are exemplary citizens. I still think Higgins had dual-citizenship based on Magnum's comment in "Pleasure Principle." JMHO
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#18 Post by Jodykmg365 »

I can't see Higgins giving up his British citizenship....ever. He was just too much of a tough old Brit! :lol: I think he enjoyed living in Hawaii very much, but I think he will always consider England home.

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#19 Post by K Hale »

IslandHopper wrote:
perfectlykevin wrote:I doubt he was a US citizen. I rememebr in the pilot ep. he said to Magnum not to put ice in his whiskey..."I'm not a bloody American!" I may have it slightly off but that what I'm remembering.
Higgins may not have been a U.S. citizen when he made the "I'm not a bloody American" comment, but that doesn't mean he didn't become a U.S. citizen sometime after. The "legal" immigration process takes many years. According to Higgins' History, he wasn't hired by Robin Masters until 1972, and there is nothing in Higgins' history that would indicate that he was in Hawaii before 1972. Just because he came to Hawaii in 1972 doesn't mean he immediately applied for U.S. citizenship. I know people from England who have been trying to become U.S. citizens for more than a decade and they are business owners here in the states, pay taxes and are exemplary citizens. I still think Higgins had dual-citizenship based on Magnum's comment in "Pleasure Principle." JMHO
I am not convinced either way. Magnum might have meant Rosita merely assumed Higgins was a US citizen and could be convinced to marry her and gain citizenship (pretty patronizing of TM to think Higgy Baby would fall for this) or he might have meant Higgins WAS a US citizen at this point, unlike the era of "Mad Dogs and Englishmen" when he was still on a work visa. (Edited to add: I cannot imagine there was any way he would ever, ever, ever renounce UK citizenship! It's got to be dual or nothing!)

Good information here: http://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/d ... sa-464826/

Question: why would Higgins particularly want to be a US citizen vs. a green card holder? From what someone said upthread, people on a work visa still pay income tax so he would have had to have a SSN which was established in the pilot. What advantage is there to being a citizen other than voting rights?
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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#20 Post by marlboro »

I'm picturing Elmo smuggling him across the Texas border while Higgins tells an interminable story about how he and Corky Bostwick crossed the Berlin wall in a jerry-rigged hot air balloon constructed out of old tyre inner tubes back in 63. Or was in 64?

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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#21 Post by K Hale »

marlboro wrote:I'm picturing Elmo smuggling him across the Texas border while Higgins tells an interminable story about how he and Corky Bostwick crossed the Berlin wall in a jerry-rigged hot air balloon constructed out of old tyre inner tubes back in 63. Or was in 64?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#22 Post by ConchRepublican »

marlboro wrote:I'm picturing Elmo smuggling him across the Texas border while Higgins tells an interminable story about how he and Corky Bostwick crossed the Berlin wall in a jerry-rigged hot air balloon constructed out of old tyre inner tubes back in 63. Or was in 64?
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#23 Post by ConchRepublican »

K Hale wrote:
IslandHopper wrote:
perfectlykevin wrote:I doubt he was a US citizen. I rememebr in the pilot ep. he said to Magnum not to put ice in his whiskey..."I'm not a bloody American!" I may have it slightly off but that what I'm remembering.
Higgins may not have been a U.S. citizen when he made the "I'm not a bloody American" comment, but that doesn't mean he didn't become a U.S. citizen sometime after. The "legal" immigration process takes many years. According to Higgins' History, he wasn't hired by Robin Masters until 1972, and there is nothing in Higgins' history that would indicate that he was in Hawaii before 1972. Just because he came to Hawaii in 1972 doesn't mean he immediately applied for U.S. citizenship. I know people from England who have been trying to become U.S. citizens for more than a decade and they are business owners here in the states, pay taxes and are exemplary citizens. I still think Higgins had dual-citizenship based on Magnum's comment in "Pleasure Principle." JMHO
I am not convinced either way. Magnum might have meant Rosita merely assumed Higgins was a US citizen and could be convinced to marry her and gain citizenship (pretty patronizing of TM to think Higgy Baby would fall for this) or he might have meant Higgins WAS a US citizen at this point, unlike the era of "Mad Dogs and Englishmen" when he was still on a work visa. (Edited to add: I cannot imagine there was any way he would ever, ever, ever renounce UK citizenship! It's got to be dual or nothing!)

Good information here: http://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/d ... sa-464826/

Question: why would Higgins particularly want to be a US citizen vs. a green card holder? From what someone said upthread, people on a work visa still pay income tax so he would have had to have a SSN which was established in the pilot. What advantage is there to being a citizen other than voting rights?

This is an interesting discussion, thank you for reviving it K Hale.

I never thought too deeply on it but I would have to agree with the position that Higgins would NEVER give up his English citizenship, especially as a member of the Peerage which he has so much pride in. I can see him perhaps seeing the advantages of being an American citizen as well, "I'm not a Bloody American" comment aside, which plays into the Pleasure Principle comment by Magnum . . . I'll need to watch that again. That could just be a mistake by Thomas.
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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#24 Post by Fr. Paddy McGuinness »

UK / US dual citizenship is allowed. My oldest brother was born in Cheltenham and now resides in Cocoa Beach. He is a naturalized US citizen and has retained his British citizenship. I was born in Ireland and am a naturalized US citizen. I also hold dual citizenship. I can’t imagine a world where Higgins isn’t British. I believe US citizenship would be a matter of convenience for him.
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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#25 Post by K Hale »

Fr. Paddy McGuinness wrote:UK / US dual citizenship is allowed. My oldest brother was born in Cheltenham and now resides in Cocoa Beach. He is a naturalized US citizen and has retained his British citizenship. I was born in Ireland and am a naturalized US citizen. I also hold dual citizenship. I can’t imagine a world where Higgins isn’t British. I believe US citizenship would be a matter of convenience for him.
As in, he would do it if it were convenient? Or he would do it if he wanted access to something only available to US citizens, as opposed to just wanting to be a citizen for the sake of being one?

What are the advantages?
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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#26 Post by ConchRepublican »

K Hale wrote:
Fr. Paddy McGuinness wrote:UK / US dual citizenship is allowed. My oldest brother was born in Cheltenham and now resides in Cocoa Beach. He is a naturalized US citizen and has retained his British citizenship. I was born in Ireland and am a naturalized US citizen. I also hold dual citizenship. I can’t imagine a world where Higgins isn’t British. I believe US citizenship would be a matter of convenience for him.
As in, he would do it if it were convenient? Or he would do it if he wanted access to something only available to US citizens, as opposed to just wanting to be a citizen for the sake of being one?

What are the advantages?
I found this which is interesting.
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/the-t ... tte-50426/

Of the 6 reasons noted, I'd think #1 would be a priority since he was staying long term.

1. Naturalization is less expensive over time because there is no need for renewal. The
current fee charged by the government to renew a permanent resident card (green card) is
$450. Now compare that to the current $680 application fee to become a naturalized U.S.
citizen. At first glance it will seem that naturalization is more expensive than renewing
the green card. But let's examine this further. Assuming the naturalization application is
approved, this becomes a one-time of $680 fee versus a minimum of $450 you would
have to pay every 10 years to renew your green card. And since immigration filing fees
have increased dramatically in recent years, you can expect the cost to renew the green
card to increase over time, almost certainly within the 10 year period before a new green
card expires. A person may end up paying hefty green card renewal fees 2, 3, 4 or more
times over a lifetime. Yikes!


Considering all the charity work and groups Higgins is a part of, I'd think #6 would lend more weight to his voice on their behalf.

6. Naturalized citizens can effect real change through enhanced civic participation. Only
U.S. citizens can vote in U.S. federal, state, and local elections, and only U.S. citizens can
hold elected office. This is becoming an increasingly important and powerful benefit of
naturalization, as state officials, Congress, and the President all influence and help shape
future immigration legislation and current enforcement priorities, as well as enact many
other laws that affect your finances and quality of life.


Aside from those two, perhaps I can see how #2 would just be one less thing to be concerned about when traveling and returning to the Estate.

2. Only Naturalization can protect you from removal (deportation). Citizenship is the
ONLY protection from deportation (removal) from the U.S. The list of criminal offenses
- many of them misdemeanors and often involving no jail time - that can trigger removal
is continually being expanded by Congress and judicial interpretation. A Legal
Permanent Resident (green card holder) will always be subject to the possibility of
removal from the U.S. or denied entry upon return to the U.S. for an infraction. As a U.S.
citizen, however, the worst punishment one can face is imprisonment (or the death
penalty depending on the state), but never deportation.



The others mentioned I don't think really would be of interest to Jonathan, but there are definite pluses in the ones noted above for a man like him.
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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#27 Post by waverly2211 »

Based on all evidence on the show Higgins is a British citizen legally in the us, and would have a green card and a SSN. If he were to marry non-US citizen from an “approved” country who is here on a work or tourist visa, she automatically can apply for a green card and SSN card. As Higgins “wife” she in essence would cut to the front of the line and not to have to go through a long process.

If she applied on her own she would need a job or be a full time student, references and pass a long background check. Yes even in the 80’s it was long. My Dad moved to the states from Canada in 1964 on a temp work visa with SSN. Before he could get it he needed some references. Then it took another 1.6+ years to get my mom and us 3 kids a green card because his visa was a temporary one, still subject to approval.

But by marring a person here legally, it drastically speeds things up from years to probably a few months in the 80’s.

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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#28 Post by K Hale »

ConchRepublican wrote:
K Hale wrote:
Fr. Paddy McGuinness wrote:UK / US dual citizenship is allowed. My oldest brother was born in Cheltenham and now resides in Cocoa Beach. He is a naturalized US citizen and has retained his British citizenship. I was born in Ireland and am a naturalized US citizen. I also hold dual citizenship. I can’t imagine a world where Higgins isn’t British. I believe US citizenship would be a matter of convenience for him.
As in, he would do it if it were convenient? Or he would do it if he wanted access to something only available to US citizens, as opposed to just wanting to be a citizen for the sake of being one?

What are the advantages?
I found this which is interesting.
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/the-t ... tte-50426/
Very compelling. Given what Magnum said about Rosita's possible motives, added to this information, seems to indicate that he very likely did become a US citizen even if he was still on a work visa at least as late as S6 ("Mad Dogs and Englishmen").

The only thing that still gives me pause is this info that I found on that British expats site I linked above: "Your question depends on how you interpret the oath you'll have to take to become a USA citizen. You have to declare on oath that you "absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen". If you're willing to do that while intending to maintain you UK citizenship, then you've no problem."

The person went on to say that the UK does not care what you say on your US oath and it does NOT affect your actual UK citizenship in any way, shape, or form. But can you picture Higgins actually uttering those words?
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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#29 Post by Rands »

Higgins was a "LAWFUL PERMANANET RESIDENT" (LPR). Lawful Permanent residency is for those persons (foreign Nationals) who wish to remain citizens of their Nation(s), while lawfully residing and working in the United States. As taken from the Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA) Section 101, Paragraph (20): 'The term "lawfully admitted for permanent residence" means the status of having been lawfully accorded the privilege of residing in the United States as an immigrant in accordance with the immigration laws, such status not having been changed.' There are literally millions of foreign Nationals who live and work in the United States each and every year. Of note, male LPRs over 18 years of age are required to register with Selective Service, if they were both after December 1959.

Paddy, just to let you know, while many foreign Nations recognize dual citizenship, the United States does not. Once you are Naturalized as a United States Citizen (USC), the Naturalized Citizen is required to "denounce" their former citizenship. This requirement is to ensure that the Naturalized Citizen's Allegiance is to the United States, and not the former Nation. My first former wife was born in Honduras, her father being a Marine Guard at the US Embassy Guard there. Her birth was registered with the Embassy, and U.S. State Department. As her mother was a Honduran National, both Nations granted citizenship. Both she and I were in Army ROTC, and prior to her Commissioning she had to renounce her "citizenship" with Honduras, to ensure her loyalty, and to acquire a security clearance.

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Re: Was Higgins a US Citizen?

#30 Post by K Hale »

But did Honduras recognize the renunciation?

The info I acquired from that British expat website indicated that Great Britain, at least, does not recognize her citizens' renunciations when declared to a foreign country. So you can renounce all you like but you remain a British subject until and unless you file legal papers with Great Britain.
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