Need military history experts

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K Hale
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Need military history experts

#1 Post by K Hale »

Can anybody tell me any info about the insignia on Higgins' old uniform? Here are a few screen grabs from "Memories are Forever." Not very clear but the best I could get.

Sleeve. I know the stripes represent a sergeant major. What would the little pin be? It's metallic but I could not make out the shape. What is it and would it signify a RSM specifically?

Imagestripes_and_pin by eringobragh915, on Flickr

Fruit salad.

Imagefruit_salad by eringobragh915, on Flickr

Collar. I can't make out what this is.

Imagecollar_pin by eringobragh915, on Flickr

Also, this is an amazing scene and I cannot believe Starz cut it. It's only on the DVD.
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Sam
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Re: Need military history experts

#2 Post by Sam »


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K Hale
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Re: Need military history experts

#3 Post by K Hale »

Very handy, thank you! I believe I found the Victoria Cross so far, but have my work cut out for me for the rest. :lol:
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K Hale
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Re: Need military history experts

#4 Post by K Hale »

I've certainly learned a lot this morning.

The Wikipedia link above and a little more research has led me to the following conclusion. There are eight ribbons on the ribbon bar, in two rows of four:

Image

I believe these are as follows. Corrections are welcome.

Image
I could not locate this one. I made this little mock up myself.

Image
VICTORIA CROSS
The Victoria Cross (VC) is the highest award of the United Kingdom honours system. It is awarded for gallantry "in the presence of the enemy" to members of the British armed forces. "... most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy." Since the first awards were presented by Queen Victoria in 1857, two thirds of all awards have been personally presented by the British monarch. These investitures are usually held at Buckingham Palace.

Image
DEFENCE MEDAL
The Defence Medal was instituted by the United Kingdom in May 1945, to be awarded to British military and civilian personnel for a range of services in the United Kingdom, and to British, British Commonwealth and British Colonial personnel who served from or outside their home countries in a non-operational area or in an area subject to threat, such as attacks from the air. In the United Kingdom, this included military personnel working in headquarters, on training bases and airfields for the duration of the War in Europe from 3 September 1939 to 8 May 1945, and service by members of the Home Guard during its existence from 14 May 1940 to 31 December 1944. The medal was also awarded for non-operational service overseas in the Dominions of the British Commonwealth, India and the Colonies. Those who qualified for the award of any one of the Campaign Stars, could be awarded the Defence Medal in addition, and the subsequent award of one of the Campaign Stars did not supersede a previous award of the Defence Medal.

Image
AFRICA STAR
The Africa Star is a military campaign medal, instituted by the United Kingdom on 8 July 1943 for award to subjects of the British Commonwealth who served in the Second World War, specifically in North Africa between 10 June 1940 and 12 May 1943 inclusive. Three clasps were instituted to be worn on the medal ribbon, the North Africa 1942–43 Clasp, the 8th Army Clasp and the 1st Army Clasp. The Africa Star was awarded for a minimum of one day's service in an operational area of North Africa between 10 June 1940 and 12 May 1943. The operational area includes the whole of the area between the Suez Canal and the Strait of Gibraltar, together with Malta, Abyssinia, Kenya, the Sudan, both Somalilands and Eritrea. The North Africa 1942–43 Clasp was awarded for service with the 18th Army Group Headquarters between 15 February 1942 and 12 February 1943 inclusive, for Navy and Merchant Navy personnel in shore service, or for Air Force service in specified areas from 23 October 1942 to 12 May 1943 inclusive. In undress, a silver rosette worn on the ribbon bar denotes the award of this clasp. After their victory in North Africa, the Allies used their positions in Tunisia and Malta to invade Sicily. The campaign in Sicily took place from 10 July to 17 August 1943. After this swift victory, the Allies pressed on into Italy and, when the Italian Campaign began on 3 September 1943, became the first Allied forces to land back on mainland Europe since the Canadian-led Dieppe Raid on 19 August, 1942. They also invaded Italian occupied Greece, Yugoslavia, Corsica and Sardinia. The campaign in Italy itself continued until the end of the war in Europe on 8 May 1945.

Image
ITALY STAR
The Italy Star is a military campaign medal, instituted by the United Kingdom in May 1945 for award to subjects of the British Commonwealth who served in the Second World War, specifically in the Italian Campaign from 1943 to 1945. The Italy Star was instituted by the United Kingdom in May 1945 for award to those who had served in operations in Sicily or Italy during the Italian Campaign, from the capture of Pantellaria on 11 June 1943 to the end of active hostilities in Europe on 8 May 1945, both dates inclusive.

Image
FRANCE AND GERMANY STAR
The France and Germany Star was instituted by the United Kingdom in May 1945, for award to those who had served in operations on land or in the air in France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Holland or Germany from 6 June 1944 until the end of active hostilities in Europe on 8 May 1945, both dates inclusive, as well as for Naval and Merchant Navy service directly in support of these land operations.

Image
BURMA STAR
The Burma Star is a military campaign medal, instituted by the United Kingdom in May 1945 for award to subjects of the British Commonwealth who served in the Second World War, specifically in the Burma Campaign from 1941 to 1945. The Burma Campaign took place between 11 December 1941 and 2 September 1945, during which time Japanese forces invaded Burma and drove British forces back to the Indian border. Since the Japanese held superiority in the Pacific Ocean, the Allies were not in a position to strike back and regain a foothold in Burma until early in 1944. Total surrender of the Japanese came on 2 September 1945. Prisoners of War were forced by their Japanese captors to labour on projects such as railway construction, later depicted in the film The Bridge on the River Kwai, and were frequently tortured and starved. The Burma Star was instituted by the United Kingdom in May 1945 for award to those who had served in operations in the Burma Campaign from 11 December 1941 to 2 September 1945, both dates inclusive.

Image
CONSPICUOUS GALLANTRY MEDAL
The Conspicuous Gallantry Medal (CGM) was, until 1993, a military decoration awarded to personnel of the British Armed Forces and, from September 1942, to personnel of the Merchant Navy of rank equivalent to that of petty officer or seaman. It could formerly also be awarded to personnel of other Commonwealth countries, below commissioned rank, for conspicuous gallantry in action against the enemy at sea or in the air. The Medal was the other ranks' equivalent of the Distinguished Service Order which could be awarded for bravery to commissioned officers, although it ranked well below that in order of precedence, between the Distinguished Conduct Medal and the Distinguished Service Medal. Recipients of the medal are entitled to use the post-nominal letters "CGM".

One brief note, there were eight campaign stars instituted for WW2 service, but no one could be awarded more than five (Higgins has four). The stars are Atlantic Star, Air Crew Europe Star, France and Germany Star, Arctic Star, Africa Star, Pacific Star, Burma Star, and Italy Star.

Well, if you stuck with it this long, I hope you enjoyed. Again, corrections are welcome, and if anyone can identify the one in the upper left, it's the only one I can't find.
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Re: Need military history experts

#5 Post by Sam »

Wow...great job... could that medal ribbon be the Military Cross?I found this..
The one I posted is white purple white.... can't tell if yours is blue or purple.

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/me ... tary-cross

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K Hale
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Re: Need military history experts

#6 Post by K Hale »

Sam wrote:Wow...great job... could that medal ribbon be the Military Cross?I found this..
The one I posted is white purple white.... can't tell if yours is blue or purple.

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/me ... tary-cross
You are probably correct. The screen grab is blue, and the images I found for it looked purple instead of blue, but blue fabric often fades/discolors to purple. A Google image search shows many purple and many blue. Way to go!
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Re: Need military history experts

#7 Post by K Hale »

Wiki says, "The award was created on 28 December 1914[7] for commissioned officers of the substantive rank of Captain or below and for Warrant Officers." Is an RSM considered a warrant officer? I seem to recall it is.
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Re: Need military history experts

#8 Post by Styles Bitchley »

K Hale wrote:Is an RSM considered a warrant officer? I seem to recall it is.
Yes. Great research here! It should be incorporated into here: http://magnum-mania.com/Articles/Higgins_History.html
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K Hale
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Re: Need military history experts

#9 Post by K Hale »

Styles Bitchley wrote:
K Hale wrote:Is an RSM considered a warrant officer? I seem to recall it is.
Yes. Great research here! It should be incorporated into here: http://magnum-mania.com/Articles/Higgins_History.html
It would be an honor if it were!
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Re: Need military history experts

#10 Post by TBOU »

Looks good, but the second ribbon can’t be a VC because the VC is the highest commendation possible and it comes up as the second ribbon. But it could be a DCM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disting ... duct_Medal

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Re: Need military history experts

#11 Post by K Hale »

TBOU wrote:Looks good, but the second ribbon can’t be a VC because the VC is the highest commendation possible and it comes up as the second ribbon. But it could be a DCM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disting ... duct_Medal
I don’t think that’s it. There’s definitely a little object in the middle, not a stripe. We know he has a VC, so perhaps its location is just a wardrobe error.
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Re: Need military history experts

#12 Post by waverly2211 »

K Hale wrote:Can anybody tell me any info about the insignia on Higgins' old uniform? Here are a few screen grabs from "Memories are Forever." Not very clear but the best I could get.

Sleeve. I know the stripes represent a sergeant major. What would the little pin be? It's metallic but I could not make out the shape. What is it and would it signify a RSM specifically?

Imagestripes_and_pin by eringobragh915, on Flickr

Fruit salad.

Imagefruit_salad by eringobragh915, on Flickr

Collar. I can't make out what this is.

Imagecollar_pin by eringobragh915, on Flickr

Also, this is an amazing scene and I cannot believe Starz cut it. It's only on the DVD.

Just stumbled on this

Bottom pin could be an SAS pin aka Winged Dagger


Top
Called an uncle back in Canada who served in WW2. Canadians added a small Maple Leaf patch above the Sgt. stripes to note a Sgt. Major.

British, a gold crown patch above the stripes Sgt. Major, stripes alone just a Sgt. If a gold and red patch, it's maybe a quartermaster Sgt or Sgt. Major.

Whether it's a crown or the lion unicorn patch or something similar, based on what my uncle says, he is 100% sure the dual colors are used to represent Higgins as a Regimental Sergeant Major of some kind.

And in the context of WWII, many times they were given a small patch to sew on when promoted and only if they stayed in the service after the war was a complete uniform switch made. Too expensive to make new uniforms every time a soldier was promoted.

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K Hale
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Re: Need military history experts

#13 Post by K Hale »

Great info! Thank you, and please thank your uncle!

I just looked up the SAS winged dagger pin, and I do believe it’s very likely that’s what this is!
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