The Absolute Worst Episodes

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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#61 Post by No need to know! »

Season 1-3. I never skip a single episode.

Smaller than Life and Paradise blues were two weaker ones from season 4.

Kiss of the sabre, The love-for-sale boat and A pretty good dancing chicken i tend to skip in season 5.

Season 6. Weakest season by far. Round and around, Paniolo, Rapture, I never wanted to go to France anyway, This Island isn´t big enough, A little bit of luck..a little bit of grief and Photo play.

Season 7 was better. Kapu, Missing Melody and The aunt who came to dinner aren´t good though.

Season 8 was short and had a couple of forgettable episodes like Forever in time and The great Hawaiian adventure company.

Just my two cents and these 17 episodes i usually skip. 17 isn´t much. And most of these 17 episodes still have some funny moments.
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#62 Post by eltonsean »

Referring to "Echoes Of The Mind" and "Mac's Back",
Little Garwood wrote:
I also take issue with him(Magnum) grieving like he does. After all, this man has already endured the death of his father, the supposed-and-then-still-to-come-death of Michele; Mac, and numerous comrades in Vietnam. He handled all of those traumas exceedingly well.
Magnum handled all those traumas exceedingly well? Little Garwood, I love your posts, so please try not to take offence, but let's just examine this for a second...
I'm not sure Magnum actually handles traumas as well as you are suggesting.

1. As far as Magnum's father's death, well that's difficult to speak on because we don't really have a lot of information to go on. Although, watching "Home From The Sea", Magnum still seems to be bothered by his dad's death by the fact Magnum still needs to be alone every July 4th (the day his dad died). It must have been a very harsh trauma if it's still affecting Magnum.

2. Michelle's first "death" in Vietnam. Well, we know from season 2's "Wave" and other episodes that Magnum actually spent time in a VA hospital for mental issues, most likely involving Post Traumatic Stress. It would make sense that part of his issues revolved around Michelle's "death". And In the episode "Memories Are Forever", when Magnum told them he saw Michelle on a boat, both Rick and T.C. became VERY concerned and T.C. suggested Magnum not open "old wounds".

3. Casey, Magnum's surfing friend in "Wave". Magnum was going to probably shoot that blonde bearded dope dealer that Magnum though was responsible for Casey's death if the dope dealer hadn't convinced Magnum he was innocent.

4. Mac's death. How well did Magnum handle Mac being murdered? Magnum killed Ivan in cold blood. I wouldn't say that is handling the trauma "exceedingly well". :wink: In reality, there would have been some SERIOUS consequences for Magnum's actions.

5. and lastly, Michelle's actual murder. Remember how Magnum completely flipped and went into sniper assassination mode? He again meticulously planned to murder that vietnamese guy who was responsible for Michelle's death.

After these examples, it kinda makes Magnum reaction to Sharon Stone's character's death seem trifle. He just got a little depressed, grew a beard and drank a little more beer than usual :D

So, I dare say, I feel that maybe Magnum does not always deal "exceedingly well" with trauma. Magnum doesn't always have it all together, all the time. He makes mistakes. And if pushed too hard, Magnum has potential to go off the deep end. And you know what? I think that makes him MORE human and I love that about his character, don't you? :magnum:

What an amazing television show with such beautifully written characters to fall in love with. I love getting lost in the Magnum Universe :magnum:

Anyways, Little Garwood, I'm not trying to pick a fight, just some food for thought. What do you guys think? I just love talking about Magnum!
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#63 Post by Little Garwood »

No offense taken! However, it does surprise me whenever someone reads, let alone replies to something I've written (seriously).

You make valid and excellent points regarding Magnum's various meltdowns and I appreciate the in-depth reply. That's one of the things I love about this forum. Most of my reply here is less about the points you make so well and more about the show's sacrificing of character consistency for the sake of dramatic impact.

In Wave Goodbye--imo among the worst episodes of the series--TM's tossing off one line about being in a VA hospital was, to my memory, never brought up again, which is a shame because it's that kind of neglected character element I wish they had followed up on. Like I say so often on this forum, my biggest pet peeve is when sacrificing character for short-term dramatic (or comedic effect) and I fear that's what was done with the VA hospital line. One of the things that set Magnum, P.I. apart from everything that came before it is that Vietnam veterans weren't portrayed as murderous psychotic baby killers like they so often were prior to MPI, so perhaps further mentions of Thomas being a VA "nutcase" was best left discarded. In fact, the entire episode lacks that Magnum feeling; I said as much in my review of it.

In Home from the Sea, all Thomas does is go out on his surf ski and remember his father; nothing maladjusted about that, actually; just a guy who misses his father and wishes to spend time alone.

Despite Magnum coming thisclose to wasting Ki, I as a viewer never thought that Thomas was going to kill everyone who has wronged him, no matter what the offense. In Unfinished Business all TM does is paint some faces on some fruit he assassinates while that instrumental song by Genesis plays over and over. Magnum pretty much does the right thing all the time. He does go overboard with his emotions, but always pulls back and refrains from going the extreme route...

...except for...

...in Did You See the Sunrise?, Magnum's murder of Ivan will forever be shocking. It *still* makes me wince whenever I see it and I'm due to see it next as I head into season three. I used to revel in its dramatic intensity but now I'm convinced that character consistency was sacrificed for what proved to be the series' single greatest dramatic moment. I find myself not wanting it to have happened because like Ivan said, we know Thomas too well for him to have murdered someone in cold blood. I suppose Buck Greene pulled the appropriate strings in order to give Magnum a reprieve. After all, Ivan was an international terrorist, so what could be termed a "shadow ops" killing was going to be swept under the carpet. I find the total absence of consequences abhorrent in this case as it totally tears apart what we (and Ivan!) knew about Thomas. Thomas' killing of Ivan is a betrayal of the character and I have a hard time coming to terms with it. At no other time does Thomas act in such a way. Yes, the fantasy elements and '80s jingoism do play a part in all this but I won't ever hide behind that as an excuse for actions that these characters take.
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#64 Post by eltonsean »

Little Garwood wrote:
Despite Magnum coming thisclose to wasting Ki, I as a viewer never thought that Thomas was going to kill everyone who has wronged him, no matter what the offence. In Unfinished Business all TM does is paint some faces on some fruit he assassinates while that instrumental song by Genesis plays over and over. Magnum pretty much does the right thing all the time. He does go overboard with his emotions, but always pulls back and refrains from going the extreme route...
I still say that what Magnum did in "Unfinished Business" could definitely be considered "overboard". He literally travelled to that prisoner exchange location for the exclusive purpose of killing Ki with a sniper rifle. Magnum spends half of the entire episode prepping to Kill Ki. Thankfully he decided not to kill him at the last second, after having Ki in the cross hairs of his rifle. Overboard! If there wasn't an american P.O.W. to exchange, Ki would have been a dead man, IMO. I'm not particularly fond of "Unfinished Business" because of how nuts Magnum gets in the episode. plus, I'm not a fan of revenge plots.

But I agree with you, Magnum generally always does the right thing. He's a good man, and someone worth emulating.

And I also agree that it sucks when his character is compromised for the sake of drama or comedy. That's also why I don't like "Unfinished Business". Magnum is just acting too much out of character and more like a crazy killer. And like you said, it sucks how they just mentioned the V.A. hospital just once. they SHOULD have delved more into his time at the V.A. hospital, besides just showing random PTSD flashbacks like in "Skin Deep" and other Vietnam focused episodes.

Another example of character compromise is the whole Higgins/robin masters debacle. But instead of compromising just a character, the writers compromised the entire story arc of the first 6 seasons! Not cool. Or it could be seen as Magnum just being nuts and not thinking clearly. Either way, the premise is silly. I know many people don't agree with me on this, and that's okay. But that's also the reason I mainly stick with watching the first 4 seasons. Although there are a couple gems in the later seasons like "Death and Taxes".

anyways, I'm always reading people's posts, it's one of my daily rituals :magnum:
Last edited by eltonsean on Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#65 Post by Little Garwood »

eltonsean wrote:Another example of character compromise is the whole Higgins/robin masters debacle. But instead of compromising just a character, the writers compromised the entire story arc of the first 6 seasons! Not cool. Or it could be seen as Magnum just being nuts and not thinking clearly. Either way, the premise is silly. I know many people don't agree with me on this, and that's okay. But that's also the reason I mainly stick with watching the first 4 seasons. Although there are a couple gems in the later seasons like "Death and Taxes".
I agree completely. I detest the lame-brained, last-second, thrown-in, "Wouldn't it be cool if...?" nonsense that is the "Higgins-Robin" debacle. If anyone watched the series from the start, it would be jarring and completely impossible for Higgins to "be" Robin, especially when one sees the numerous contradictory--because it was never even implied that Higgins was Robin--events that prove he's not. I hate that half-baked concept with a passion and even though there are still some fine episodes in seasons 5--8--including a few of my all-time favorites--I much prefer seasons 1-4.
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#66 Post by ConchRepublican »

Little Garwood wrote:
eltonsean wrote:Another example of character compromise is the whole Higgins/robin masters debacle. But instead of compromising just a character, the writers compromised the entire story arc of the first 6 seasons! Not cool. Or it could be seen as Magnum just being nuts and not thinking clearly. Either way, the premise is silly. I know many people don't agree with me on this, and that's okay. But that's also the reason I mainly stick with watching the first 4 seasons. Although there are a couple gems in the later seasons like "Death and Taxes".
I agree completely. I detest the lame-brained, last-second, thrown-in, "Wouldn't it be cool if...?" nonsense that is the "Higgins-Robin" debacle. If anyone watched the series from the start, it would be jarring and completely impossible for Higgins to "be" Robin, especially when one sees the numerous contradictory--because it was never even implied that Higgins was Robin--events that prove he's not. I hate that half-baked concept with a passion and even though there are still some fine episodes in seasons 5--8--including a few of my all-time favorites--I much prefer seasons 1-4.
Great back and forth Little Garwood & eltonsean!

I agree, I have always been of the idea that Higgins as Robin makes no sense. As far as I'm concerned the J. Digger Doyle episode alone undermines the whole premise. I appreciate the many attempts on these boards to backfill the story to make it work, but it really doesn't for me.

That aside though, I do think all the other moments mentioned (unless one of you brought up him reenlisting) do fit Thomas' character. Both Did You See the Sunrise? and Unfinished Business were extreme cases where a warrior lost people close to him and feels a responsibility to make things right. Whacking Ivan needed to happen and I thought made the show realistic. You don't let that man live to fight another day. I don't believe it was cold blooded murder either. He put down a mad dog before it could attack someone else.

Unfinished Business is even more extreme in that TM wasn't sure what else there was to live for. All he cared about was gone, and he knew who did it. Once again, I can understand his mindset. Politics and maneuvering aside, Ki should have died as well for what he did. I agree, if Thomas didn't weigh the responsibility of the others having the chance to be reunited, and show his true character, Ki would have been put down. As a father and husband, a strong case can be made it's his responsibility.

As for the VA hospital comment, I thought that was handled well also. He didn't say how long he was there or, really, what for. He could have been connecting with Wings Hauser that they had something in common, but it didn't have to be just a mental hospital, it could have been Thomas recuperating after being shot, we know he was hit in 'Nam and TM has been known to fudge things a little. Even if he did spend some time getting his head straight, not talking about it would be in line with most people who have been to war and how these characters have played their wartime experiences: close to the vest keeping an illusion of cool and collected even between each other. Skin Deep is the perfect example:

Magnum: Hey T.C.
T.C.: Yo!
Magnum: You ever think about 'Nam? I mean have memories flash through your head without really even thinking about it?
T.C.: Naw, never.
Magnum: Uh-huh, that's kinda what I thought.
T.C.: How about you?
Magnum: Who me? No.

All they while they both were having those flashbacks.
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#67 Post by eltonsean »

ConchRepublican wrote:
As for the VA hospital comment, I thought that was handled well also. He didn't say how long he was there or, really, what for. He could have been connecting with Wings Hauser that they had something in common, but it didn't have to be just a mental hospital, it could have been Thomas recuperating after being shot, we know he was hit in 'Nam and TM has been known to fudge things a little. Even if he did spend some time getting his head straight, not talking about it would be in line with most people who have been to war and how these characters have played their wartime experiences: close to the vest keeping an illusion of cool and collected even between each other. Skin Deep is the perfect example:

Magnum: Hey T.C.
T.C.: Yo!
Magnum: You ever think about 'Nam? I mean have memories flash through your head without really even thinking about it?
T.C.: Naw, never.
Magnum: Uh-huh, that's kinda what I thought.
T.C.: How about you?
Magnum: Who me? No.

All they while they both were having those flashbacks.
a great voice-over from 'Skin Deep":
Magnum: "I'd gone months without remembering 'Nam until this morning. The scary part wasn't the memories that kept popping into my head, it was the idea that someday I might flash back in my mind, and never return".

I think Magnum's character is still somewhat suffering from Post-Traumatic-Stress after Michelle's "death" in 'Nam and the war in general. And I think we can all agree that his character did not like to discuss it. It shows that Magnum was human, flawed, relatable. That being said, Bellisario and his writing team were able to be a voice for those real vets who came back with PTS issues. In many ways, I think "Magnum, P.I." was a needed conversation starter for vets, being able to see that they weren't the only ones dealing with flashbacks and PTS. In a small way the TV show may have helped with their healing process.

Post traumatic stress was definitely a re-occurring theme, especially in the first few seasons besides the already mentioned "Skin Deep" and "Wave Goodbye". Like the vet suffering from survivor's guilt in season 2's "The Last Page" and the nurse dealing with PTS in season 3's "Heal Thyself". Even season 4's "The Look" could be seen as PTS for the female character, driven to thoughts of murder and suicide due to a past emotional trauma. I've always loved those episodes because they seemed so dark, but the message of possible healing was strong.
What a great show!! :magnum:
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#68 Post by Derek »

Interesting thread, will start thinking about the series this way. Of course, the attempted Airwolf spinoff episode will be a part of my negative list, I couldn't even watch it to the end. I was especially angry at this one because it started out promising. I felt scammed out of watching my Magnum episode! And some of the scenes were ludicrous. It was just too much. Too bad, the start was ok. IIRC, Higgins holds Magnum responsible for the plance crashing in the pool :)

I was also annoyed a couple of times when they put a lot of emphasis on the guest stars, and those guests perform poorly (sometimes, my subjective impression). It irritates me because I don't know most of the guest actors. From the way the camera treats them, they must be popular, but I just don't know who it is! Strange, isn't it? There was only one guest actor that I actually recognized, Lyman Ward, he played the father of Ferris Bueller. Well him I liked as guest :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be too negative, there were really good episodes that had strong guest roles. But it will be interesting to be a bit critical, I'll try to come up with a list as well.

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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#69 Post by Luther's nephew Dobie »

[quote="ConchRepublican"]
Did You See the Sunrise?...Whacking Ivan needed to happen and I thought made the show realistic. You don't let that man live to fight another day. I don't believe it was cold blooded murder either. He put down a mad dog before it could attack someone else.
As for the VA hospital... Even if he did spend some time getting his head straight, not talking about it would be in line with most people who have been to war and how these characters have played their wartime experiences: close to the vest

Hi Conch,
Regarding 'Did You See the Sunrise', thank you! You put it perfectly, Magnum was putting a mad dog down, now I can enjoy the episode without the unease I had before.
Regarding the VA Hospital and vets not talking about the fighting, you are right on target. I had uncles plus my Dad in WW 2, they never talked about it unless they were off by themselves in a corner. You said they 'played it close to the vest' at the VA? This past summer at a family reunion, I shocked my cousins when I mentioned how their Dad had been in a VA Hospital pysch ward for a year after the war(twice he was the only man in his squad to escape death). They never knew, he never mentioned it to them, I only knew because I overheard my dad and uncle talking about the VA because thats where my uncle learned duck carving for therapy, for which he became rather famous as the artist who taught him was considered one of the most sought after folk art types in the country. Different world then, you ever hear of famous artists/singers bothering to teach at a VA hospital?
Anyway Conch, you nailed it.

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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#70 Post by eltonsean »

Luther's nephew Dobie wrote: Hi Conch,
Regarding 'Did You See the Sunrise', thank you! You put it perfectly, Magnum was putting a mad dog down, now I can enjoy the episode without the unease I had before.
Regarding the VA Hospital and vets not talking about the fighting, you are right on target. I had uncles plus my Dad in WW 2, they never talked about it unless they were off by themselves in a corner. You said they 'played it close to the vest' at the VA? This past summer at a family reunion, I shocked my cousins when I mentioned how their Dad had been in a VA Hospital pysch ward for a year after the war(twice he was the only man in his squad to escape death). They never knew, he never mentioned it to them, I only knew because I overheard my dad and uncle talking about the VA because thats where my uncle learned duck carving for therapy, for which he became rather famous as the artist who taught him was considered one of the most sought after folk art types in the country. Different world then, you ever hear of famous artists/singers bothering to teach at a VA hospital?
Anyway Conch, you nailed it.
thanks for sharing with us your family's experience with V.A. hospitals. It's always good to hear people's own personal stories in life. I think part of the reason vets keep this stuff "close to their vest" is because they are embarrassed or ashamed or something. They shouldn't be. The amount of stress from war must be immense! It takes courage to admit you need help and then to take the necessary steps to deal with it . I can't imagine going to fight in a war, never mind being the only one in my squad to survive! Again, thanks for sharing.
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#71 Post by Little Garwood »

Good discussion, indeed, gents. I didn't mention it in this thread--I don't think--but I would definitely be one of those who dislikes Magnum's re-upping in the USN. "Two steps back", as I call it.

My father was a combat infantryman in Vietnam (1969-70) and he almost never discussed his experiences with any of the family as far as I know and they never asked, because he told me this after my grandfather died, though if I asked questions, dad would talk about it, and always in his low-key, self-effacing way. You'd never know that this man received three Bronze Stars over there. The things he went through definitely had a devastating effect on him. I would even say that it led him on a slow, forty-year march to the grave (he died of throat cancer in 2009; age 61).
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#72 Post by eltonsean »

Little Garwood wrote:Good discussion, indeed, gents. I didn't mention it in this thread--I don't think--but I would definitely be one of those who dislikes Magnum's re-upping in the USN. "Two steps back", as I call it.

My father was a combat infantryman in Vietnam (1969-70) and he almost never discussed his experiences with any of the family as far as I know and they never asked, because he told me this after my grandfather died, though if I asked questions, dad would talk about it, and always in his low-key, self-effacing way. You'd never know that this man received three Bronze Stars over there. The things he went through definitely had a devastating effect on him. I would even say that it led him on a slow, forty-year march to the grave (he died of throat cancer in 2009; age 61).
wow, a 40 year march to the grave. That's horrible. Thanks for sharing that with us.

btw, here's more evidence that Magnum had a hard time dealing with Michelle's "death" in 'Nam from season 2's "Memories Are Forever":

T.C.: "It took you a long time for you [Magnum] to get over Michelle's death, man, if you ever did. And you just should not go trying to scratch a wound that's beginning to heal, man. You could get infected real bad, real bad".

"Memories Are Forever", by the way, is my favourite "Magnum" episode of all time. I like it even more than the shocking "Did You See The Sunrise". The story of seeing T.M. struggling with Michelle and losing her again in the end is just some of the best inside looks at T.M.'s character of the entire series. And although the ending isn't as shocking as "Did You See The Sunrise", I think "Memories Are Forever" had an ending that packs a deeper emotional punch and is truer to life. It also ends with the writers saying this: "Vietnam is a war that will never end until all the boys come home. And for some, not even then".
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#73 Post by Turkey »

Great conversation, enjoying the discussion :)
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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#74 Post by Bes »

Based on my most recent viewings, the worst episodes are IMO as follows:

The Ugliest Dog In Hawaii - Not actually a bad episode, but still my least favourite from the impeccable 1st series.

Mixed Doubles - The young lady Magnum is forced to 'babysit'/ take abuse from here is painfully obnoxious & even Selleck doesn't seem to be enjoying himself; I think he overacts in this one! Only an effectively creepy Henry Gibson saves this episode from the bin.

2 Birds of a Feather - Although OK viewing, this is not a Magnum episode, as I'm sure we all agree.

No More Mr Nice Guy - A promising premise is undercut by the annoying portrayal of Carol; the writers made her so duplicitous here that I can't understand why TM ever agreed to help her again. Luckily her character improves in later episodes, though she remains hit & miss. The plot gets a bit too convoluted here too.

Kiss of the Sabre - The premise of this one is OK I suppose, but the execution is completely misguided, with ill judged humour & style, & a thoroughly annoying guest star/ character as the female writer. I won't blame the actress as it may have been the script or direction which were most to blame.

Deja Vu - The point where the 2 part episodes start to jump the shark. 1 part would've been more than enough for this uncomplicated, needlessly protracted mystery story. I could've done without seeing Higgins' 'Dad' too. Shudder!

Summer School - I found this episode very annoying, with Tate Donovan's brattish nephew of Robin causing much havoc throughout, only for Higgins to bizarrely telling him to visit any time at the end. I found this most out of character/ unbelievable all things considered. It's not like there was any worthwhile redemption for the character.

A Little Bit of Luck... A Little Bit of Grief - This episode where Rick becomes a millionaire was extremely ill judged and was so tediously protracted it felt like a 2 parter! Larry is not really at his best here (though one can hardly blame him). Bruce Forsyth's cameo was the high point!

Who Is Don Luis Higgins... - The nadir of the Higgins 'twin' episodes; pointless, poorly written & generally tiresome.

Paniolo - A very mediocre story; perfectly watchable, but all too bland for a Magnum episode. Long term fans would rightfully expect a higher quality by this stage.

LA - A very lacklustre 2 parter with another ill fitting romantic interest for TM. Meh. Next!

Missing Melody - Along with Mixed Doubles, Kiss of the Sabre & A Little Bit of Luck... this has to be the series at its' very worst. A rock bottom episode which is poorly written, directed & acted; Roger Mosely is terrible here & the characterisations are almost all off, even Higgins'!

Limbo - I strongly disliked the ending of this one, though I might give it another chance. I'd still give it 7/10 overall though. I may remove this after a re-watch; it's just the climax that I found thoroughly unsatisfying/ misjudged.

The Great Hawaiian Adventure Co. - Mediocre with a capital M & really clumsily placed after Unfinished Business. An embarrasment all round really.

Legend of the Lost Art - IMO An extremely tiresome, unpalatably broad (for the series) parody of Raiders. Blah.

I recall A.A.P.I., Transitions, Resolutions 1 & 2, and the series 6 episode about the missile launching dolphins were all a bit ho hum too, but I'll re-watch them before official inclusion on the worst list.

It appears that seasons 6 & 8 are the weakest for me judging by how many of my least favourites appear in each. I couldn't decide on whether to include an episode from series 2 (perhaps The Taking of Dick... deserves the hall of shame?). Even the series 1 episode I picked was a borderline inclusion. Perhaps it just goes to show how consistent those 2 series' were? Actually, Series 3 & 4 too; even the Carol episode I picked as the worst from the latter isn't outright bad, just annoying IMO. Even series 5 holds up better than I remembered.

It's certainly easier to pick the few 'lesser' episodes then it is to choose the best, as there were just so many great episodes!

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Re: The Absolute Worst Episodes

#75 Post by Stelth »

The only episode that is unwatchable to me is the one with the midget secret agent.

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